3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happen?

Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Once trained its not too difficult to handle a life raft in a pool - I would agree on that.

Yes, I agree on the need for training - its as important, if not more important tha the equipment.

So I think the best training with the best equipment is the best solution ..... I have never thought different to that.

What I do not want anyone thinking from this thread is that ,at sea the fact that a life raft may inflate upside down is not a major problem - it is. Hence I do not like the stories of a 40 person raft being righted by a slip of a girl being put forward because they make light of the major problem at sea of righting a life raft.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Brendan
Sorry you do not like it but I make no apology for it.

The issue is a serious one and am determined to make a few simple points without the water being muddied.

I really do not think that my style is an issue - if it is then just stay away from the thread.

The videos etc were OK for what they were and there will be lots of fascinating stuff like that posted next year but I am not going to modify myself to conform to some forum though police.

I would have much preferred you to comment on the subject matter of the thread for that is the issue.

I really think any rational outside person following this thread would be able to see the simplicity of my points and the way I have resisted those points being clouded by nonesense.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Yes and dream about 40 foot women righting a slip of a life raft ... or something like that!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Very good points Gludy, and I must say stimulates thought which I feel is a good thing. All I want to ne able to do in an emergency is the best I can for my family I HAVE NO EXCUSE NOT TO, I am here blabbling on about this and that, taking no action and suffering an emergency or loss of a life because I did nothing would be criminal and I could never live with that. With the help of some very experieced people we have all bee warned of the dangers, there IS NO EXCUSE NOT to re assess all of our own safety kit and proceedures while we have time. When the [--word removed--] hits the fan I want to know that I am as prepared as I could be and that I have done all within my bidget and power to protect my crew and myself. Balance is another thing, where do we draw the line, I have just bought a camera, I could have bought a jolly good liferaft instead, will I ever regret that? just that I am not ready to get the life raft because I want to be trained first, plus I am not boating until March/April.

I for one see boating as a hobby, it does not rule my life, I have loads of other hobbies, interests and love travelling the world so have not put all my eggs in one basket. I can easily still afford to do other things due to the fact I only have a tiny boat, but this safety issue is one that will now eat into other hobby budgets, I have to decide where to draw the line, not easy because when you are sinking you would pay anything to be saved and kept alive. Your posts about the self righting liferaft is very thought provoking, time to review budgets I think /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Whether boating is a hobby or full time job, whether you have a big or small boat, the sea is the sea, I see no real difference in what safety gear you should need for each similar type of cruising route you take whether working or pleasure. I would hope legislation was brought in from lessons learned in the past, that will do me, I don't want to be another lesson learnt /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

It seems you, as leisure users, may not need a raft all that often. Is there any scope for you to set up your own liferaft hire pool? A group/club could poke some money in at the start, negotiate for purchase and service prices and hire out as and when needed.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

That is probably a good idea, 'liferaft share' in a good quailty one for extended passages.

I am still trying to get my head around the pottering around the coast scenario, if I am half a mile out at sea with a 4yr old or 5 miles and my boat sinks with nobody about, it would still be as hard to deal with /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

[ QUOTE ]
hire out as and when needed

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello? Is that the liferaft hire pool? Listen, we've got a bit of a problem. We need one of the liferafts, because we're sinking. Can you get it to us? Where? Oh, right - we're about 10 miles due S of St Catherine's Point. I know it's a bit breezy at the moment, but can you get it to us asap? The water's rising above the cabin sole.........."

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

......and another one to think about. Prosaver do a very basic, single chamber raft which is under £500, and, I am told, popular with e.g. yacht delivery skippers: it only weighs 7kg, has a shoulder strap and is the size of a large start battery. Easy to carry by car or train, easy to carry in a small boat, a family dayboat for instance.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Pedant! Of course I mean you could hire for the odd cross channel trip, while the rest of the time you might feel you don't need one, or can rely on the tender etc.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Assuming a non-self-righting raft CAN be righted by trained crew in adverse conditions is no worse an assumption than assuming a self-righting raft will self-right in the same adverse conditions surely???? If you believe the manufacturers statements and test results why would you not believe tried and tested techniques for non-self-righting rafts?????

Of my worst-case scenarios would surely be a huge untrained-to-trained ratio as with the ferry case you quoted.

When all else fails you have to work with what you have got in any situation, this may be an inverted raft or it may be a self-righter that won't inflate at all......

Happy Christmas Gludy and try and let your blood pressure down before this thread nose-dives into the ground..... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Shipswoofy

LOL...While we're still fannying around looking for a slip of a girl to right our liferafts, you & your ciggies are being picked up by a CG helicopter equipped with thermal imaging!!

Remind me to put 20 B&H in the grab bag /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

[ QUOTE ]
If you believe the manufacturers statements and test results why would you not believe tried and tested techniques for non-self-righting rafts?????


[/ QUOTE ]

I sometime wonder if folks read the thrreads. I am all for the training and all for being trained to right a life raft so nowhere have I stated otherwise and I have stated that point over and over. What I do not beleive is that a slip of a girl can right a 40 man liferaft is an f6 - the ckaims being made that I resist are anything but tried and tested techniques they are total nonesense and they mislead those who may not know.

Blood pressure is OK thanks .....
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

[ QUOTE ]
Pedant!

[/ QUOTE ]
'Fraid so; one of the most irritating of my many character defects.

Incidentally, I wouldn't want anyone thinking I was being flippant about a serious subject - it's a good idea. I have a small (21ft) boat and for reasons of space, cost and practicality - and because I hardly ever venture outside the Solent - wouldn't normally consider having a liferaft on board. But I can see that there are occasions when I might want to.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Well a 10yr old girl will be able to right a capsized dinghy in strong winds by using the correct technique in no time at all (they demonstrate it at sailing clubs everywhere all the time). 18st Fat bloke with no technique will fail every time until he succumbs to exhaustion.

I see no inherent reason to disbeleive the statement re slip of a girl, and it is quite possible to come up with situations where it would be impossible, with a self-righter as well.....after all with a given crew it may be impossible to actually launch any raft in some conditions, in which case there is no option but to enter the water and hope/pray that the raft floats free (assuming it isn't stuck or in a valise under the outboard).....

A non-self-righter is safer than a dinghy, a dinghy is safer than nothing. Not carrying anything while you save up for a self-righter isn't much good if you need one in the meantime hm?

You seem to be trying to make the case that only self-righters are safe, well there have to be a set of condition before that is so, if individuals avoid those situations then the difference may be moot.

eg it matters not if a raft inflates inverted if it can be righted from the mother vessel (the technique above is after all assuming just you and the raft), before entry.....

I agree with Brendan that this was a VERY interesting thread that is in serious danger of going belly-up.....
 
Re: Shipswoofy

[ QUOTE ]
you & your ciggies are being picked up by a CG helicopter equipped with thermal imaging!!

Remind me to put 20 B&H in the grab bag

[/ QUOTE ]

I never thought about my ciggies in that way - thanks /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Perhaps in the grab bag, I will put some............Hamlet cigars /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Actually I have got a serious post / story about being in the water exhausted and drifting in the ocean not knowing if someone would be coming back for me / could find me and having enough time to wonder if perhaps I should have been a bit more careful.......... and the knowledege / imagination to know where it could / would still be going "wronger".

But I have gotta go now and do some Xmas shopping /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Will post up later - not the most exciting of posts, and at the risk of giving the ending away - I did survive /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
This boating lark is too dangerous. I\'m staying in bed!!

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm amazed that some of us get out of bed in the morning without first doing a risk assessment!!


Don't get me wrong, of course safety is important but jeez lets get it into perspective.

I would hope I've got enough common sense to deal with all reasonably expected circumstances without having to play and rehearse every eventuality!!

If I made such a big play on safety as some here I don't think I'd bother.

As long as you reasonably prepare for what can be reasonably expected to happen then you've done more than most.
 
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