3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happen?

Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

" if you can organise a raft into which you can step with dry feet, great."

Then a self righting raft gives you a far better chance of doing that and avoids the chance of having to enter the water so do we now agree that such a raft must be safer?
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Mirage
Then we agree - I am all for training to right a raft - you may need to do it and so should be trained for it but seeing as you agree with my points then you cannot disagree that a self righting raft has to be safer.

Also I know that you must really agree that a girl in an f6 trying to pull up 40 man raft is not really on is it?

You r pool may have been cold but not like the sea can be - within 30 seconds many go into shock and you must know that.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

And all I'm saying is, for goodness sake go and get yourselves trained, then make an informed decision about your safety provision.
My 'incredibly misleading advice' is verbatim from a qualified instructor.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

[ QUOTE ]
I think one needs to maintain a sense of proportion.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes & your own 'risk assessment', I always wear a PFD & kill cord when under way, in the same way as I always have worn a seat belt in a car but don't use crutch straps although I know I should.

[ QUOTE ]
You probably drive from your home to your boat along a motorway.

[/ QUOTE ]No, I walk /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif & not along a motorway.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

[ QUOTE ]
Are you really serious? I understand about not jumping into the raft - I have never stated anywhere you should but i am saying you can get into the life raft from the boat and that is better than jumping in!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
The expression 'step up' was used on the course I attended as a way of emphasising the point about only leaving the vessel as the very last resort.
It was a point I don't remember being made on the last survival course I did with the RAF 30 years ago.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Alright, alright, I wasn't getting at you personally in re motorway, I suspect a lot of contributors do drive a certain amount, and you know exactly what I mean. That is , you should perhaps consider your own situation as regards safety, the risks you are exposed to, the precautions you have already taken. I believe that there is a slight danger that some people think they can buy safety (Volvo drivers? Steady now, I am one) and then start to think they are invincible. This is all generating more heat than light, but there is a hard core of useful info.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

I am waiting until I have done the sea survival course prior to making the ultimate decision what to go for. If Gludy is right and I do not doubt for one minute that he is not, then I 'may' be spending a little more than I wanted to, but what price can you put on your life? I am also taking swmbo on the course, so when she is shouting at me because it is upside down she will understand /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

[ QUOTE ]
That is , you should perhaps consider your own situation as regards safety, the risks you are exposed to, the precautions you have already taken.

[/ QUOTE ]
As I said, you should do your own risk assessment & take the precautions that you are happy & can live with.[ QUOTE ]
I believe that there is a slight danger that some people think they can buy safety (Volvo drivers? Steady now, I am one) and then start to think they are invincible.

[/ QUOTE ]I believe that we are long past the 'slight danger' point, particularly with regard to 'Chelsea Tractors' on the inner city school run.
 
Re: Shipswoofy

fisherman

Cheers.

Knowing me I will probably forget the VHF though - but not me ciggies /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Folk get quite here heated don't they /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

If you consider yourself trained then you should be able to see the nonesense the slip of a girl and the 40 foot life raft is in any sort of real situation at sea - if you cannot see that then I suggest you get yourself retrained.

Tell me one thing that I have written that has gone against any sea survival advice - I have not written anything against any established advice - you have.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

[ QUOTE ]



Do you or do you not agree that a self righting life raft must be safer?

Do you or do you not agree that its always best to avoid getting into the water?


Absolutely, although I'm not au fait with the dynamics of self righting rafts. We were trained to jump onto the canopy of the raft, arse first.

Just as a matter of interest, next time you go on a cross channel ferry, with its inherent stability(!), imagine getting people of various ages and abilities down those slab sides on those rope ladders, or across the drawbridge to the raft suspended on the crane 70ft above the water.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

[ QUOTE ]
If you consider yourself trained then you should be able to see the nonesense the slip of a girl and the 40 foot life raft is in any sort of real situation at sea - if you cannot see that then I suggest you get yourself retrained.

40 man, not 40 foot. I only repeated what I had been told, as previously explained. Of course there may be situations where your best efforts are confounded.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

GC1
What the survival course will teach you amongst other things is how difficult it is to handle a life raft in a pool let alone the sea. Please note that nobody here has actually disagreed with the points I have been making - they have gone in for some standard fogging of the discussion.

Its me that has disagreed with them because I do not think that a slip of a girl could pull up a 40 man liferaft in a f6 winf in a sea with real waves at real temperatures. I also value the self righting life raft that enables me to step into it rather than Have to dive into the water. I am in total support of being taught how to right a life raft but the fact is that in this thread that was put up as a counter to not needing a self righting life raft and that is pure nonesense.

You will be taught or at least told on that course how water temperature can effect you very quickly and how you can lose control - so really there is nothing you do not already know that changes one dot of what I have been saying.

The simple facts re with your family - if ever the times comes to have to deploy a life raft you will all be scared - at that time to add the need to plunge into water and self right the raft, even if that were possible in the waves and wind, is something I want to buy my way out of. In many situations it would not even be possible.

You already know all this .... I am really not adding anything to what i feel you already fully understand.

Safety is about reducing the odds - there wil laways be a risk and we all choose a blance of risks. I am not saying anyone elses balance is wrong = I am simply saying if you want to reduce the risks re the life raft the issues of self righting, easy access and thermal insulated floor are all important aspects to condsider - a self righting life raft reduces the chances of things going wrong ...... I do not think anyone can logically disagree with that.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

I am sure you were told that but deep down I am sure when you think about it ,in practice, its rubbish.

I am 100% in support of being trained to right a life raft because one day you may need to do it but I also realise that in most conditions where I would deploy one, the chances of me righting it a lowish and risks greatly increased.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

I disagree on one point: it's not difficult to handle a raft in a pool. The only problem was the guy who forgot the instruction to stay face up and pull the tape to shift the raft of his face: he turned face down and his lifejacket kept him under the raft.
of course things will be different in a real emergency. What I worry about is the people who think the raft will magically save them without training.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

I will publish a video of a self righting life raft self righting itself in the new year. ... its interesting stuff - i have no commercial connection - its just that i am shooting some videos on safety and boats.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

I'm only going to make one post on this thread, and thereafter won't get drawn into any further discussion.

Recently you've been fun to post with, with video tests etc. However, in this thread you've reverted to "I've got a point to make, and will continue to make it, and demand answers to questions even if you know by answering the question you'll be subjected to further nitpicking, until everyone agrees with me" type of post.

Please go back to the way of posting you've been doing more recently, it's much nicer.

I'm guilty of getting on high horse too, so it makes it easier to spot in others.
 
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