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Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
How about an epirb plus the tender ?
dv.
How about an epirb plus the tender ?
dv.
3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happen?
- Thread starter GC1
- Start date
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
The tender depends on conditions - the liferaft is built to survive poor conditionds.
The issue is to reduce the possibility of someone getting hurt and it seems to me having a liferaft on board reduces those odds.
Of course - good liferaft plus epirb - plus a few other safety bits = say £2k, sp safety does not come cheap.
The tender depends on conditions - the liferaft is built to survive poor conditionds.
The issue is to reduce the possibility of someone getting hurt and it seems to me having a liferaft on board reduces those odds.
Of course - good liferaft plus epirb - plus a few other safety bits = say £2k, sp safety does not come cheap.
Jonmendez
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
The big problem for most people is that 2k IS a lot of money, The one good thing about hving done the sea survival course is that you are equiped with the knowledge to make a considered decision as to what you want from your liferaft. Just like all boats are some form of compromise so are liferafts, whilst the posh one may have all the features, do you have somewhere to store it, can you lift it to launch it? etc. the list of issues goes on.
The big problem for most people is that 2k IS a lot of money, The one good thing about hving done the sea survival course is that you are equiped with the knowledge to make a considered decision as to what you want from your liferaft. Just like all boats are some form of compromise so are liferafts, whilst the posh one may have all the features, do you have somewhere to store it, can you lift it to launch it? etc. the list of issues goes on.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
I am puzzled a bit by that.
Surely we all want the same basic things from a life raft - that it inflates and stays the right way up - that it is possible to get into it etc. I think the sea survival course rams the points home but does not change the objective.
I agree 2k is a lot for many but is you are forking say 50k out on a boat, to spend 2k on safety is not out of balance - its a question of priorities
Priorities tend to change after an accident such as this - hindsight after such an accident is a good learning tool for the future.
I am puzzled a bit by that.
Surely we all want the same basic things from a life raft - that it inflates and stays the right way up - that it is possible to get into it etc. I think the sea survival course rams the points home but does not change the objective.
I agree 2k is a lot for many but is you are forking say 50k out on a boat, to spend 2k on safety is not out of balance - its a question of priorities
Priorities tend to change after an accident such as this - hindsight after such an accident is a good learning tool for the future.
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
I thought the regs for commercial fishing boats, required an automatic float free EPIRB and liferaft? Maybe I'm wrong, tragic accident,
Jonmendez
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
Could not agree more, liferafts are designed to inflate and stays the right way up and it should be possible to get into it. However the point of the course is to realise that they are all not the same, as you pointed out the 'Viking' is proberly the best available at the moment. fact of life though that people will look at its £1500+ price and think why pay that when i can get one for £500 they dont understand the differences. Many people spend all available budget on the boat without any safety equipment. Then realise that they need lots of other stuff....
Could not agree more, liferafts are designed to inflate and stays the right way up and it should be possible to get into it. However the point of the course is to realise that they are all not the same, as you pointed out the 'Viking' is proberly the best available at the moment. fact of life though that people will look at its £1500+ price and think why pay that when i can get one for £500 they dont understand the differences. Many people spend all available budget on the boat without any safety equipment. Then realise that they need lots of other stuff....
Jonmendez
Well-Known Member
Could not agree more, liferafts are designed to inflate and stays the right way up and it should be possible to get into it. However the point of the course is to realise that they are all not the same, as you pointed out the 'Viking' is proberly the best available at the moment. fact of life though that people will look at its £1500+ price and think why pay that when i can get one for £500 they dont understand the differences. Many people spend all available budget on the boat without any safety equipment. Then realise that they need lots of other stuff....
fisherman
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
The point about a raft is you may need to be out of the weather. When you are all in a closed raft after about twenty mins the air reaches saturation point and you stop losing body heat through evaporation. Then you keep it closed, pee on the floor and bail it out later etc to avoid any further loss. As well as the cost of purchase, there is servicing and some have a long initial period before servicing. Cost of service can depend on the rescue pack installed, deep sea RORC with food and water etc, or inshore without. You can hire one for about £300 p.a. cost includes annual service
Re ccscott49, larger fishing vessels (either over ten or over twelve mts) are required to carry rafts and Epirbs and they should float free. I suggest that in this case the capsize was so sudden that the gear was trapped in inverted mountings.
Think about this: a raft has to float free and it is the sinking vessel that pulls the painter out to fire the raft. If the raft gets too deep through being caught up, at some point the pressure will reduce the air spaces in the canister until it has no buoyancy.
The point about a raft is you may need to be out of the weather. When you are all in a closed raft after about twenty mins the air reaches saturation point and you stop losing body heat through evaporation. Then you keep it closed, pee on the floor and bail it out later etc to avoid any further loss. As well as the cost of purchase, there is servicing and some have a long initial period before servicing. Cost of service can depend on the rescue pack installed, deep sea RORC with food and water etc, or inshore without. You can hire one for about £300 p.a. cost includes annual service
Re ccscott49, larger fishing vessels (either over ten or over twelve mts) are required to carry rafts and Epirbs and they should float free. I suggest that in this case the capsize was so sudden that the gear was trapped in inverted mountings.
Think about this: a raft has to float free and it is the sinking vessel that pulls the painter out to fire the raft. If the raft gets too deep through being caught up, at some point the pressure will reduce the air spaces in the canister until it has no buoyancy.
GC1
N/A
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
Who could define where the point would be when you have to consider the more serious life raft e.g. what type of boating are we talking about, 2 miles, 6 miles, 20 miles, off shore or more?
If I was going to the CI's what 'should' I have with me for safety, and was willing to spend a bit of money, but not go daft for the sake of it.
Who could define where the point would be when you have to consider the more serious life raft e.g. what type of boating are we talking about, 2 miles, 6 miles, 20 miles, off shore or more?
If I was going to the CI's what 'should' I have with me for safety, and was willing to spend a bit of money, but not go daft for the sake of it.
Jonmendez
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
If I was considering longer journeys >30 miles from land then i would want a ISAF or SOLAS raft, these are made to a higher standard and contain more kit (still not a lot though as it makes it to heavy) Depends if you are travelling alone or in company with another boat.
If I was considering longer journeys >30 miles from land then i would want a ISAF or SOLAS raft, these are made to a higher standard and contain more kit (still not a lot though as it makes it to heavy) Depends if you are travelling alone or in company with another boat.
GC1
N/A
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
I think that is the problem, balancing the pro's and con's of so much kit and weight. I would be doing the CI's in company but would always like to be self sufficient. I have relied on an EPIRB and my 260 Zodiac so far, is it time to get a liferaft, and if so are the £489 ones a total waste of money or better than nothing if just pottering about around the coast?
I think that is the problem, balancing the pro's and con's of so much kit and weight. I would be doing the CI's in company but would always like to be self sufficient. I have relied on an EPIRB and my 260 Zodiac so far, is it time to get a liferaft, and if so are the £489 ones a total waste of money or better than nothing if just pottering about around the coast?
KevB
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
A dinghy, Hand held, Cruising in company = Big life raft, mobile phone.... Not sure a life raft is necessary. When you take into consideration the purchase cost and servicing you may as well hire one for the "extended" journeys.
What's the RCD rating of your new boat, 6 people? 8? 10? So are you going to buy a life raft for the maximum you may have on board? Probably more cost efficient to hire the size you need for the occasion?
Lets be honest, you are unlikely to undertake a channel crossing on your own unless the weather is almost gaurantee'd to be perfect. To do so would be full hardy life raft or not? IMHO a dinghy capable of holding all the crew along with enough life jackets, a hand held VHF, some flares and a mobile phone would be higher up my list than a life raft.
A dinghy, Hand held, Cruising in company = Big life raft, mobile phone.... Not sure a life raft is necessary. When you take into consideration the purchase cost and servicing you may as well hire one for the "extended" journeys.
What's the RCD rating of your new boat, 6 people? 8? 10? So are you going to buy a life raft for the maximum you may have on board? Probably more cost efficient to hire the size you need for the occasion?
Lets be honest, you are unlikely to undertake a channel crossing on your own unless the weather is almost gaurantee'd to be perfect. To do so would be full hardy life raft or not? IMHO a dinghy capable of holding all the crew along with enough life jackets, a hand held VHF, some flares and a mobile phone would be higher up my list than a life raft.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
As regards distance off shoreV liferaft I cannot see the connection - given that the depth of water is more than you can tsand up in - a liferaft inflated upside down is just as useless 2 miles or 50 miles off shore - as is one you cannot always get into.
our logic on the other safety issues seems fine but on this one, I cannot make sense of your points
What I am really saying is that if you are going to have a liferaft at all then please consider the real safety aspects - there is a difference in cost between a Viking and others but the size difference is small.
If ever I had to use a life raft I would want to know its a functional one .... its as simple as that - many are little more than lilo beds.
As regards distance off shoreV liferaft I cannot see the connection - given that the depth of water is more than you can tsand up in - a liferaft inflated upside down is just as useless 2 miles or 50 miles off shore - as is one you cannot always get into.
our logic on the other safety issues seems fine but on this one, I cannot make sense of your points
What I am really saying is that if you are going to have a liferaft at all then please consider the real safety aspects - there is a difference in cost between a Viking and others but the size difference is small.
If ever I had to use a life raft I would want to know its a functional one .... its as simple as that - many are little more than lilo beds.
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
[ QUOTE ]
Lets be honest, you are unlikely to undertake a channel crossing on your own unless the weather is almost gaurantee'd to be perfect. To do so would be full hardy life raft or not?
[/ QUOTE ] Hope you don't mind a raggie asking what might seem like a stupid question. How perfect do you need the weather to be before you cross the channel on your own? Do you mean just your boat on its own with others on board, or totally alone on the boat yourself?
[ QUOTE ]
Lets be honest, you are unlikely to undertake a channel crossing on your own unless the weather is almost gaurantee'd to be perfect. To do so would be full hardy life raft or not?
[/ QUOTE ] Hope you don't mind a raggie asking what might seem like a stupid question. How perfect do you need the weather to be before you cross the channel on your own? Do you mean just your boat on its own with others on board, or totally alone on the boat yourself?
KevB
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
Personally I wouldn't cruise across the channel alone (the only boat) if the forecast was anything more than fair weather with F3 forecast.
I crossed the channel in company this year with F4 - F6 blowing but wouldn't do it again. No problems, just took the fun out of it.
If just coastal hopping around the Solent I wouldn't worry in the slightest about going out in a F5 (wind and tide direction permitting).
I do boating for fun not for the sake of it, so if I know the journey is going to be rough then why bother?
Every now and again a short rough journey can and is fun, but doing it for a long period of time just becomes tedious.
Personally I wouldn't cruise across the channel alone (the only boat) if the forecast was anything more than fair weather with F3 forecast.
I crossed the channel in company this year with F4 - F6 blowing but wouldn't do it again. No problems, just took the fun out of it.
If just coastal hopping around the Solent I wouldn't worry in the slightest about going out in a F5 (wind and tide direction permitting).
I do boating for fun not for the sake of it, so if I know the journey is going to be rough then why bother?
Every now and again a short rough journey can and is fun, but doing it for a long period of time just becomes tedious.
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
Interesting. Most raggies will relish a F4-6, especially if its on the beam. The bigger waves are usually more comfortable than a short, confused chop which comes from lighter winds against tide.
Interesting. Most raggies will relish a F4-6, especially if its on the beam. The bigger waves are usually more comfortable than a short, confused chop which comes from lighter winds against tide.
KevB
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
[ QUOTE ]
Most raggies will relish a F4-6, especially if its on the beam
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess it comes down to perception. F4 - F6 is easily handled by a mobo but my 3 hour journey from Chichester to Cherberg is now a 6 hour journey. I guess you as a sailor are already 'conditioned' for that journey time where as I would think sod it I'll either not go or wait for more enjoyable conditions.
[ QUOTE ]
Most raggies will relish a F4-6, especially if its on the beam
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess it comes down to perception. F4 - F6 is easily handled by a mobo but my 3 hour journey from Chichester to Cherberg is now a 6 hour journey. I guess you as a sailor are already 'conditioned' for that journey time where as I would think sod it I'll either not go or wait for more enjoyable conditions.
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ
[ QUOTE ]
I think that is the problem, balancing the pro's and con's of so much kit and weight. I would be doing the CI's in company but would always like to be self sufficient. I have relied on an EPIRB and my 260 Zodiac so far, is it time to get a liferaft, and if so are the £489 ones a total waste of money or better than nothing if just pottering about around the coast?
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you see the irony, self sufficient!
Everything you mention is to hail for help or rely on others to save you, this is in no way self sufficient, so please stop banging the self sufficient drum when you expect to be rescued when you screw up!
[ QUOTE ]
I think that is the problem, balancing the pro's and con's of so much kit and weight. I would be doing the CI's in company but would always like to be self sufficient. I have relied on an EPIRB and my 260 Zodiac so far, is it time to get a liferaft, and if so are the £489 ones a total waste of money or better than nothing if just pottering about around the coast?
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you see the irony, self sufficient!
Everything you mention is to hail for help or rely on others to save you, this is in no way self sufficient, so please stop banging the self sufficient drum when you expect to be rescued when you screw up!
KevB
Well-Known Member
Shipswoofy
Why don't you give it a rest?
Why don't you give it a rest?
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
Re: Shipswoofy
[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you give it a rest?
[/ QUOTE ]
Cos I don't want to!
[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you give it a rest?
[/ QUOTE ]
Cos I don't want to!