3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happen?

Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

One advantage the GPS sets will have is the updated positions they give will enable your potential rescuers to establish a fairly accurate speed and direction of drift, which may be useful if the beacon dies before they get to you so they can´t home on it.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Yes, I see your point, re reading over the info on them it states they give out your position every 20mins, so as you say that could be very useful.

Fisherman, you have scared the crap out of me reading those scenarios, and I guess that was with professional sailors on board, so us weekenders may not even be as sharp as them. I carry out drills and have as much safety stuff as I can, but some people do think it will never happen to them, to be in a position to abandon your boat within 3 minutes and save your family including children takes some planning, I hope it NEVER happens to me.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Keep in mind that updated positions are available from non GPS EPIRB's too, that being on every polar orbiting satellite pass ie its position is updated approx every 45 minutes on average.

Am not defending non GPS ones as I would hate to put anyone off buying one (Gludy's approach of wanting to minimise the chances of loss by buying one is fine in my view), as said they are probably the best albeit more expensive, just that they do not have any great advantage.

Regards

John
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Well two positions accurate to 2Nm at 20min intervals is going to give you a bit of an uncertain drift compared to 2 positions accurate to 30m at the same interval nes pas???

Lets face it if you are drifting at 2kt in a current there will be a huge overlap between the circles of uncertainty of the non-GPS positions.....
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

[ QUOTE ]


For 121 EPIRB's less than 2 in a 1000 alerts are actually distress alerts. Either accidental or one of the many other radio sources on 121MHZ. Not all the world is covered (about 2/3). Almost every country in the world will not respond to a 121MHz alert unless there is further information as to it being genuine. New Zealand is the only country I know of that reacts immediately to a 121 alert - for the UK I do not know what their practice is. Using Doppler shift the satellite can position the beacon to within around 13 or so nm. The alert information does not identify the boat and the power output is around 0.1 watt so can be difficult for the satellite to detect. I would not carry a 121 beacon if it was given to me and as others have said they will not be supported (Feb 2009 from memory) - and they will not be supported cos no one is going to replace the satellites and most countries don't respond to the 121 alerts anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now wondering if the 121 is worth having........

Off to look at the prices of 406's!
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

I have done some research read one of my latest posts for the links and deals offered /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

A faster frequency of position update and better accuracy so as set and drift can be better determined is of only any worth for coastal rescues (that is when the rescue can be achieved in a short time compared to the update time).

In the case of a coastal rescue and strong currents, drift and set will be well known to the SAR peeps and they will probably already be accounting for it before the second position comes in. In any event, on the coast one could expect to be rescued before drifting far and the actual location would be centred on the 121 MHz homing beacon once in VHF range (not sure how far off that would be but suspect maybe 50 miles from an aircraft although the 121 MHz beacons are much less than a watt output - maybe someone knows) rather than the exact reported position (I assume that in the UK, as here, coastal searches in the case of 406 EPIRB alerts are flown).

Again, I reiterate, there is an advantage to GPS but it is not (in my view) a show stealer in any way and peeps should not feel they are being greatly disadvantaged buying the non GPS one - especially if the non GPS ones are a better fit to their budget.

John
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

How far are you planning to go Pete? Transat? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I know the Medway can be wide in parts but.................................. You might also want to think about one of these as well? But you'll need to add it to your ships radio licence, as you will the EPIRB of course

sea-me-thumb.jpg
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

[ QUOTE ]
How far are you planning to go Pete? Transat? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I know the Medway can be wide in parts but.................................. You might also want to think about one of these as well? But you'll need to add it to your ships radio licence, as you will the EPIRB of course


[/ QUOTE ]

But is the point that how far you go unless within wading distance of the shore YOU have to take as much responsiblitity for being found or alerting help as is possible!

These guys were 11 miles offshore in probably the busiest lane in the world, on top of a wreck (which was giving an excellent radar return) and were not spottted till about 30 minutes after daylight. Its similar to being broken down in the middle of a busy A road and no one seeing you!

Who would buy a car without seatbelts/airbags/SIPS/crumple zones these days?

ANYONE at sea should have the best safety equipment that they can afford and if not then DON'T put yourself in the situation that you maybe unrescuable or DIE because you couldn't alert someone or prevent hypothermia...

I would have thought FISHERMANS post of scenarios would convince most people that it COULD happen to YOU!

PW
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

I was thinking about one anyway: it might now be sooner rather than later.

dv.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Oh don't get me wrong, I applaud those that take their safety seriously, I was just being slightly tongue in cheek with GC1 with whom I've had many a long conversation /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

I am now looking at moving to the South Coast, I will be doing more long distance trips to the CI.'s and France so want to be prepared.

I am sure that MOST people on this forum would NOT be in a position at this moment to abandon ship with all crew including children within 2 - 3 mins and be comfortable that they are putting into action the BEST plan possible and were happy they had alerted the emergency services. I have admitted my DSC technique is rusty, how many people would be able to carry out the correct proceedure they learnt 2 yrs ago and not used since?

I for one will be addressing all these things ASAP, whether I sank a mile offshore with responsibility for a 4yr old and swmbo, or 5 miles offshore, it would still be horendous, a mile can be a VERY long way when you are swimming clothed and trying to keep a child afloat /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

We are all guilty of just enjoying the beautiful views without a care in the world until **BANG** it all goes wrong and we have seconds to deal with it.

I have seen what has happened to others, I would rather miss a few meals out and get the best equipment I can afford than to watch my own little child drowning and unable to do anything about it, and then for me to drown with a belly full of fine food and wine that will end up with your guts in a shiny stainless steel bowl on the morticians slab /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Shocking I know, but a fact of life!

If you treat each incident as if you have to cope and deal with it YOURSELF and not rely on others, then any help you may or do get will be a bonus. RESPONSIBILITY is down to YOU as skipper.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

>drown with a belly full of fine food and wine that will end up with your guts in a shiny stainless steel bowl on the morticians slab

Oy, excuse me, still having a late breakfast.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

GC1
I do agree with you - you really must consider these issues and question yourself. On that issue we think alike.
So having agreed on that may I ask what type/make of liferaft do you have?
Has it passed independent standard testing? What standards doe sit meet? Is it self righting? Does it have decent steps for entering it rather than a rope ladder?
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

I am looking at liferafts and have discussed the relevant training with Solitair, I feel that I would want to do the course prior to purchasing one, and having read a previous post of yours has made getting experience of what is around very important. You talk about the ladders, blowing over and self righting e.t.c. I will be looking at all of this.

Up to now I have just pottered around the coast getting experience, I have a Zodiac 260 dinghy with a 3.5 Mercury outboard, but with longer trips in my new boat planned a liferaft will be something I will be looking in to. I only have a 25ft boat so I will have to take space and locating it into account.

If you wish to start a thread on the good and bad points of liferafts I would be interested, I will be seeing what is around at LIBS, but as I said will not purchase one until I have done the course. As you are aware I will be boatless until March/April so I have some time.

There are some cheap liferafts about, some 4 man Valise ones for £489, I would want to know the pro's and con's of that and one at £1,500 in order that I could make a decision, any info you have would be greatly appreciated.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Rumour that I heard today is that when the wreckage was lifted it was found that the rafts and EPIRB were still attached to the ship and none of the hydrostatic releases had gone deep enough to activate....

W.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

GC1
I have no connection whatsoever with any life raft maker but having done the research I find there is only one choice - a Viking. These are the only independently tested rafts tested to standard!

They are self righting and have really goos steps making it easy to climb into.

Everything else and I mean all of it on the market does not meet these criteria.

Also even if lightly loaded, say 2 people in a 5 man - they will still stay the same way up.

So I do not see much need to start a thread - if you want a properly tested and developed life raft thats it - the one choice!
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

GC1
You mentioned not going far out - You can end up needing a liferaft even if only a few miles out - an epirb is a must yes but so is something to sit in whilst the rescue services have a chance to arrive.
 
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