270 Containers overboard off Freisian Islands

[Deleted member 36384]

Re: Dutch Islands - Over 200 shipping containers currently missing from MSC Zoe..

About time to put a water-activated beacon (realistic price around 10$ each) in each and every container.

If what Minn states is the reason for this, then it does not deal with the problem of crews not fastening the containers. I imagine the containers in the sea contravene regulations associated with pollution and causing a hazard to navigation, hence a better solution at prevention is impounding the ship and crew until all containers are recovered. It's only when you hit corporations with penalties that are significant that they pay attention. But that won't happen, the boat will be sorted, the operator will be doing everything possible to get the boat back to sea and the tax payer will foot the bill cleaning up as always, maybe an insurance company will be involved.

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Dutch Islands - Over 200 shipping containers currently missing from MSC Zoe..

Surely the containers on the latest ships are automatically fastened as they are loaded.
I was looking at some ships in felixtowe last year & there were large steel rails running across the ship between each container line & the containers seemed to be dropped between them.
I got the impression that there was also longitudinal rails along the outside.
The straddle lifts seemed to locate in between the rails & catch the containers & hoist them in, or out, as the case may be
When one refers to "securing" I can hardly imagine one placing chains over stacks several containers high, although turning the locating pins might be what is meant.

But as I know nothing about handling containers, it would be interesting if those that do might care to explain how they are fastened in place

 

[GHA]

What “heavy seas” were those, then?

On New Year’s Day?

 

[Leighb]

There is a photo in todays Telegraph showing a container on the beach at Terschelling and some presumably locals "rescuing" a large flatscreen TV!

 

[Frank Holden]

Not sure if we are looking at 40 knot winds or 40 metre seas there.... who knows.... maybe 40 foot seas or 40 runs before lunch ....however....

The master was probably under pressure - by what we used to call the 'truck drivers in suits' who run the operation - to sail without delaying departure by re-securing the stow after a part discharge....

They were only going a few miles up the coast and its a big ship.... what could go wrong?

Read somewhere ( BBC?) the sea was 27 feet.... bugger all on a big ship.... however after a part discharge she would have been 'stiffer' with a sharper roll......

Oops....

Now the TDIS will be asking the master why he sailed without re-lashing...'but... but...you said'

'No we didn't... show us it where we said that - in writing!!'

I reckon by week's end the master will be swelling the ranks of the un-employed.... MSC aka 'Mafia Steam' have form in this area.......

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Re: Dutch Islands - Over 200 shipping containers currently missing from MSC Zoe..

Surely the containers on the latest ships are automatically fastened as they are loaded. ...... it would be interesting if those that do might care to explain how they are fastened in place

It appears that there are various methods and manufacturers devices for locking in containers. On my rigs it is all done manually but we are not stacking them, except maybe two high.

Google shows this: -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euYwMviOuYo

It is a terrible design, very prone for crew failure and relies on blue / yellow paint, left, right, middle positions. For highly repetitive operations that involve people you would want to eliminate any type of manual intervention. Also the video suggests that the stevedores and not the crew are responsible but that the crew accepts lashing actions by signing off, another weakness, transfers responsibility The least effective HSE controls are procedural and manual intervention.

 

[capnsensible]

Re: Dutch Islands - Over 200 shipping containers currently missing from MSC Zoe..

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Re: Dutch Islands - Over 200 shipping containers currently missing from MSC Zoe..

Surely the containers on the latest ships are automatically fastened as they are loaded.
I was looking at some ships in felixtowe last year & there were large steel rails running across the ship between each container line & the containers seemed to be dropped between them.
I got the impression that there was also longitudinal rails along the outside.
The straddle lifts seemed to locate in between the rails & catch the containers & hoist them in, or out, as the case may be
When one refers to "securing" I can hardly imagine one placing chains over stacks several containers high, although turning the locating pins might be what is meant.

But as I know nothing about handling containers, it would be interesting if those that do might care to explain how they are fastened in place

From watching them in Felixstowe on multiple weekends in the Spring, summer and autumn, they are locked at the corners automatically but then the crew have to go along and fix diagonal wires. I imagine that this stops the stack swaying.

 

[colind3782]

Re: Dutch Islands - Over 200 shipping containers currently missing from MSC Zoe..

Perhaps fitting them with a water activated AIS system would be more useful to us?

 

[sailorman]

What “heavy seas” were those, then?

On New Year’s Day?

Let’s have a bit more honesty - they hadn’t been re-lashed lashed between ports, cos the weather looked good, and because the ship was half out her GM was much larger than it had been when the lashing programme was last run.

Know how many containers have been lost by ships under my management in the course of the past forty odd years?

0.

Nail on head Minn
https://gcaptain.com/stowage-questions-mount-as-enquiries-begin-into-msc-zoe-box-loss/

 

[pvb]

Also dependes on how good the seal on the doors is, generally the older the container the worse they are unless refurbed.

It has nothing to do with the seal on the doors. Whether they float or not depends entirely on what's inside them. If there's stuff in sealed packaging and lots of polystyrene foam, they can float quite well.

 

[GHA]

Nail on head Minn
https://gcaptain.com/stowage-questions-mount-as-enquiries-begin-into-msc-zoe-box-loss/

Definitely heavy seas on the day and forecast weather didn't look good.

"while the north-west force nine wind in the area may have been a hazard for small coasters,it should not have been a problem for a vessel as large as the MSC Zoe."

Which makes it look even worse as they weren't cutting corners cos of a good forecast, looks like maybe they were just cutting corners oblivious or ignoring the weather.

 

[Joker]

Re: Dutch Islands - Over 200 shipping containers currently missing from MSC Zoe..

That is an excellent video.