240v cable spec

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TopBanana

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Hi

I'm preparing my Konsort for sale this year. One of the jobs is to renew the gas hoses. As I was inspecting them, I noticed the 240v cabling. From the shorepower connector to the galvanic isolator and RCD it's just regular multi strand, much like you'd find on an extension lead. This runs through the upper corner of the cockpit locker. Do surveyors prefer to see armoured cable of some sort?

Thanks
 
There was a thread a few weeks ago, IIRC the cable ought to be 3x2.5mm2, H07RN, max length 25m, an RCD fitted not further than 50cm away from the socket on the boat.

later edit
Just noticed the OP refers to cable inside the boat, the above is not really relevant
 
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Roberto, thank you for the reply. If I may, and to take it one step further, should the cable be yellow or orange or is that no matter and is there any reference for the 50cm or 500mm from point of entry? I am just updating my own shore power leads, chose orange and then, noticed Marinco use yellow! Then from your post, my own RCD is probably 2.5m from point of entry on a manufacturers wired boat, though Dutch. However, agree the H07RN-F cable 2.5mm cross section for 16A.
 
As long as the cable is held in place and looks ok it should be fine. The surveyor will be more interested in the cable condition and whether it is a double pole RCD.

Historically yellow cable 'laying around' indicates 110V supply such as used on building sites. The cable is the same as the blue ones except for the outer cover.
 
Aurai said:
Roberto, thank you for the reply. If I may, and to take it one step further, should the cable be yellow or orange or is that no matter and is there any reference for the 50cm or 500mm from point of entry? I am just updating my own shore power leads, chose orange and then, noticed Marinco use yellow! Then from your post, my own RCD is probably 2.5m from point of entry on a manufacturers wired boat, though Dutch. However, agree the H07RN-F cable 2.5mm cross section for 16A.
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IIRC it was Paul Rainbow who gave the specs I indicated, he'd surely know.
FWIW I could only find a black H07RN, so I bought it black. It's quite recent, the only thing I fear is with time the rubbery black outside might begin to mark the deck, but so far so good, no problems.

I also have the 30mA RCD several meters away from the deck plug, at the chart table. I plan to fit an inline RCD near the plug (I already have the galvanic isolator there), it's in an awkward location; as some inline RCDs need to be tested/reset every time the current is switched ON, I need to find one without that feature.
 
The standards that new boats have to be built in compliance with don't apply to refits, upgrades etc, so technically, you can use whatever you want. But, it would make sense to follow the standards.

According to the current ISO :

The outer sheath can be any colour.

— active (phase) conductors shall be black or brown;
— neutral conductors shall be white or light blue;
— protective conductors shall be green or green with a yellow stripe

Given the colours above, it makes sense to me to use harmonised UK/EU colour coding for boats in the UK/EU (brown, blue, green/green/yellow).

All wiring should obviously be rated for the maximum current likely to be used on the boat, for 16a systems 2.5mm sq is appropriate.

There is no requirement to use H07RN-F, which is only available in black. Arctic cable is more commonly used, i personally prefer blue, as yellow is typically used for 110v in other industries. Looking around, common colours for shore power cables seem to be blue, yellow or orange.

The stipulation that an RCD should be fitted not further than 50cm away from the shore power inlet no longer seems to be in the current ISO.

As i have been reminded in post #13 the standard calls for a circuit breaker, not an RCD, the wording of the current standard is :

7.2.2 A manually reset trip-free circuit-breaker shall be installed within 0,5 m of the source of power or, if
impractical, the conductor from the source of power to the panel-board circuit-breaker shall be contained within a
protective covering, such as a junction box, control box, enclosed panel-board, or within a conduit or cable trunking
or equivalent protective covering. If the location of the main shore-power inlet circuit-breaker exceeds 3 m from the
shore-power inlet connection or the electrical attachment point of a permanently installed shore-power cord,
additional fuses or circuit-breakers shall be provided within 3 m of the inlet or attachment point to the electrical
system in the craft, measured along the conductor.

Technically, everything between the onboard RCD and the shore power connection should be protected onshore, that does, of course, rely on compliant shore power installations, so make your own mind up there.
 
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To add to Paul's comment, I just bought the latest IET Electrical Safety for Small Craft "On Board Guide". For AC wiring it states:

11.7.3 AC System
It is normal practice to follow the following colour conventions:

a. AC line conductors: black, brown or grey
b. AC neutral conductors: light blue
c. AC protective conductors: green and yellow

Like Paul, I prefer the blue "arctic" 2.5mm cable and bought a roll of it to make up my own set of shore power leads with/without meter. The meter is also home made in a Wilex box which MDL seem happy with.
 
There is no requirement to use H07RN-F, which is only available in black. Arctic cable is more commonly used, i personally prefer blue, as yellow is typically used for 110v in other industries. Looking around, common colours for shore power cables seem to be blue, yellow or orange.

Thank you for all the wisdom, the H07RN-F is available in Orange as Rexel have just provided me with 75m. I do add that their first response and catalogue reference was any colour you want as long as it is black. Once I asked them to look into it, the orange appeared as available. Plus Marinco do theirs in yellow.

I know it is in common usage, but “arctic” cable does not seem to be “correct”. I went on this quest as I was tracing a fault condition and never suspected my arctic cable itself. Until that was the only stone unturned. Though we had continuity the Insulation Resistance test was ridiculously low!! Hence the search for its replacement and finding Marinco and others do not use Arctic cable. I totally get that the electrons are very happy with Arctic cable and lots of people use it. Thanks
 
h07 is tough as old boots, go to any live event there will be coutless kilometers of TRS H07 which has spent most of it's life getting run over by trucks & forklifts. If you want tough, that's the stuff to use.
 
Aurai said:
There is no requirement to use H07RN-F, which is only available in black. Arctic cable is more commonly used, i personally prefer blue, as yellow is typically used for 110v in other industries. Looking around, common colours for shore power cables seem to be blue, yellow or orange.

Thank you for all the wisdom, the H07RN-F is available in Orange as Rexel have just provided me with 75m. I do add that their first response and catalogue reference was any colour you want as long as it is black. Once I asked them to look into it, the orange appeared as available. Plus Marinco do theirs in yellow.
Click to expand...
Marinco cables are not H07RN-F they are H07BQ-F

If you have been supplied with orange, are you sure it's not H07BQ-F ?
Aurai said:
I know it is in common usage, but “arctic” cable does not seem to be “correct”. I went on this quest as I was tracing a fault condition and never suspected my arctic cable itself. Until that was the only stone unturned. Though we had continuity the Insulation Resistance test was ridiculously low!! Hence the search for its replacement and finding Marinco and others do not use Arctic cable. I totally get that the electrons are very happy with Arctic cable and lots of people use it. Thanks
Click to expand...
 
GHA said:
h07 is tough as old boots, go to any live event there will be coutless kilometers of TRS H07 which has spent most of it's life getting run over by trucks & forklifts. If you want tough, that's the stuff to use.
Click to expand...
The thread is about internal wiring on boats, no need whatsoever for H07.
 
As Paul says. For vibration, stranded cores will be better than the solid core you get in normal PVC T&E so not really suited to a boat but 2.5mm flex will be OK. If it's in a location that might get knocked, then put it in ducting rather than use armoured which is a pig to work with in tight spaces or around a small radius.
 
TopBanana said:
Hi

I'm preparing my Konsort for sale this year. One of the jobs is to renew the gas hoses. As I was inspecting them, I noticed the 240v cabling. From the shorepower connector to the galvanic isolator and RCD it's just regular multi strand, much like you'd find on an extension lead. This runs through the upper corner of the cockpit locker. Do surveyors prefer to see armoured cable of some sort?

Thanks
Click to expand...

and several other references to an RCD

PaulRainbow said:
The standards that new boats have to be built in compliance with don't apply to refits, upgrades etc, so technically, you can use whatever you want. But, it would make sense to follow the standards.
According to the current ISO :
>
>
The stipulation that an RCD should be fitted not further than 50cm away from the shore power inlet no longer seems to be in the current ISO. Technically, everything between the onboard RCD and the shore power connection should be protected onshore, that does, of course, rely on compliant shore power installations, so make your own mind up there.
Click to expand...

ITYWF that a DP circuit breaker, not an RCD, is, or was, stipulated. within 0.5m of the inlet socket.

.
 
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TopBanana said:
Hi

I'm preparing my Konsort for sale this year. One of the jobs is to renew the gas hoses. As I was inspecting them, I noticed the 240v cabling. From the shorepower connector to the galvanic isolator and RCD it's just regular multi strand, much like you'd find on an extension lead. This runs through the upper corner of the cockpit locker. Do surveyors prefer to see armoured cable of some sort?

Thanks
Click to expand...
With great thanks to everyone who has commented, and seeing this thread go over much ground including some off course ground from me, there is still a bit I thought I might help on. The question, “do surveyors prefer ….. armoured cable …”. Where the selection of appropriate cable and protection is entirely dependent on the circumstances. Cable routed through an engine bay might need to be heat resistant. Cable routed where it might get rough treatment, might need to be extra protected or inside something, like conduit. Which is where armoured cable could be the answer; if the circumstances identify its characteristics, affording the necessary protection. In other words a risk assessment is made. Your cable running through the upper corner of the cockpit locker, needs some assessment of its vulnerability. Then you can work out how to mitigate that. On my own boats, I could rarely, if ever see armoured as part of the solution, when conduit usually works, and or boxing in. Thank you
 
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