1974 Hull Materials

Yes, the ones that get done have a very flat mirror like finish, even an untrained eye can easily spot the difference. Realistically it's a one person/one day job so on a £50k car not a big deal. The boats are a 4 person one week type of job so on a million pound boat also not that big a deal. Especially true when at a boat show and you can stand someone on the pontoon and directly compare the "build quality" where one boat looks smooth and the other looks like a circus mirror.
The reason that racing gliders are expensive is that after the wings come out of the moulds - which are made with great care - they still get hundreds of hours of manual finishing. I'm pretty sure that labour costs more than the rest of the structure (ie excluding instruments) put together.
 
I have to confess I don't know which one they use, my brother is the sprayer. I seem to recall it was over 10 years though as having had a boat with painted decks and topsides I did mention longevity of finish. I know Russell had Lucy painted and pretty sure Pete had Ariam painted, both must be 6-8 years ago now so may be able to comment.
 
The reason that racing gliders are expensive is that after the wings come out of the moulds - which are made with great care - they still get hundreds of hours of manual finishing. I'm pretty sure that labour costs more than the rest of the structure (ie excluding instruments) put together.
Do I remember that my Dad's Pik wings came from a metal mould?
 
Production boats of the 70's or from any time if made from a conventional mould always have a gelcoat & thats what your blue layer is.
Gelcoats can be any colour including clear which was often used below the waterline as its more water resistant. So some people think boats with clear bottoms didnt have a gelcoat which is plain wrong!
The only boats which are faired & painted when new are usually one off foam sandwhich or similar types which are built over a male mold, no builder would stay in business for long if he had to fair & paint every hull it simply isnt economic.
Having been in the boat trade for over 40 years much of it doing repairs I also keep seeing statements about using epoxy to repair polyester hulls.
The first rule in grp repair is that its best to stick with compatible materials, preparation is key & polyester is perfectly capable of a first class seamless bond. Polyester will not bond well to epoxy & it is foolish to try it. Other problem is the glass reinforcement itself is coated with a size, they are not the same for epoxy & polyester, use the wrong type & the glass will not wet out properly leading to a poor laminate.
I do often use vinylester resin for initial layers on repairs as it has properties like epoxy but is fully compatible with polyester.
 
The only boats which are faired & painted when new are usually one off foam sandwhich or similar types which are built over a male mold, no builder would stay in business for long if he had to fair & paint every hull it simply isnt economic.
Princess Yachts are doing pretty well, actually!
 
Yup! Never heard or seen that in any series production, I mean why would you?

Exactly, of course you wouldn't. The idea of accepting moulds that build in defects to be rectified later is the opposite of what they do. You spend time on perfecting the tooling so that each production hull needs as little work as possible.

Princess Yachts would be bankrupt if they had to give away an Awlgrip respray with every boat. They have no facilities for large scale respray work.
Each boat leaves the yard in gelcoat from the mould.


.
 
There seems to me to be no logic, financial or construction wise to use a male mould for the manufacture of a GRP hull, except in exceptional circumstances, none of which would seem to apply even to the production of Princess or Sunseeker boats.
Although faring can give an excellent finish the gelcoat from a well produced and maintained mould will still give the basis of a finish that will require minimum after work to achieve a 'mirror' finish, and I suspect that a Hull with extensive faring may just be more prone to damage than one that has not.
The cost of producing a female mould for luxury boats (even one-offs) would seem to be minimal as part of the overall construction cost, another £100k is not really a significant addition to a £5 Million boat.
 
Having hepled build two 30ft yachts using a male mould, I just cannot understand why any production builder would want all the extra work of sanding, fairing, sanding and painting an 80ft boat that has come out of a female mould.
 
Exactly, of course you wouldn't. The idea of accepting moulds that build in defects to be rectified later is the opposite of what they do. You spend time on perfecting the tooling so that each production hull needs as little work as possible.

Princess Yachts would be bankrupt if they had to give away an Awlgrip respray with every boat. They have no facilities for large scale respray work.
Each boat leaves the yard in gelcoat from the mould.


.
You don’t seem to have read or understood any of my posts yet are commenting as if you’re familiar which you evidently are not. I can introduce you to the team who spray them if you like!
 
Having hepled build two 30ft yachts using a male mould, I just cannot understand why any production builder would want all the extra work of sanding, fairing, sanding and painting an 80ft boat that has come out of a female mould.

Surely the additional sanding, fairing painting etc. is precisely what is needed for a male mould construction, as basically the construction is 'inside out', See chapter 31 'Mouldless Construction' in 'Fibre Glass' boats by Hugo Du Plessis,
The female mould if well constructed and well prepared will give the 'yacht finish' without the extensive additional work.
 
Surely the additional sanding, fairing painting etc. is precisely what is needed for a male mould construction, as basically the construction is 'inside out', See chapter 31 'Mouldless Construction' in 'Fibre Glass' boats by Hugo Du Plessis,
The female mould if well constructed and well prepared will give the 'yacht finish' without the extensive additional work.


Yes. Princess resin infuse the latest models and the moulds are produced using large 5 axis CNC machines. The first half of this video is interesting generally. You can see there is no scope whatever for large scale fussing with hulls or spray finishing (see c 6min in):



.
 
I don't need to watch the video, I've seen them being sprayed. 6:54 and 7:41 in that video you can see the issues out of the mould quite clearly. Show me one of these at the boat show this year with those same issues and I'll be impressed.
 
Last edited:
Do I remember that my Dad's Pik wings came from a metal mould?
It's possible, but unlikely, I think. In the late 90s I visited Karlsruhe Akaflieg where one of the members was doing his Dipl.Ing. project on experimental metal wing moulds, and I got the impression that it was a new thing. However, Piks had laminar flow sections which had to be made with great precision, so if any older manufacturer was going to use metal moulds, it would be them.

Sorry, a bit waffley.
 
The first rule in grp repair is that its best to stick with compatible materials, preparation is key & polyester is perfectly capable of a first class seamless bond.
Seamless but not very strong. The advice I got to go cured polyester - epoxy - new polyester came from the chemical technology group at the Rutherford Lab, where I was seconded for a while developing tests for bond strength in composites. They knew what they were doing - the Big Project while I was there was developing fuel tanks for the HOTOL project.
 
going really off topic, with the wingspan of a glider wouldn't thermal expansion be an issue with metal (presumably aluminium?) moulds? If the mould grew 10mm when the resin warmed up I'd imagine that would cause more issues than it would solve?
 
But some of the light blue is below the waterline - isn’t it normal to use colourless gel coat in that instance or did that become standard practice in the 80’s?
Clear gel coat below the waterline was not universal, although you are right some, particularly up market builders did introduce to try and reduce potential osmosis. Most builders, though did continue with tinted gel coat, but of course invariably white. Pretty sure that in the 70s when the subject boat was moulded the same gel coat would have been used for the whole layup. It looks like on this boat the topsides have ben painted dark blue at a later date.
 
My Sadler 25 (1981) definitely used clear gel coat below the waterline and coloured above, the bilges were flow-coated so light didn't shine through, and to provide a smoother interior surface.
 
going really off topic, with the wingspan of a glider wouldn't thermal expansion be an issue with metal (presumably aluminium?) moulds? If the mould grew 10mm when the resin warmed up I'd imagine that would cause more issues than it would solve?
The metal moulds I saw were machined out of aluminium billets, 7.5m long, 1m wide and about 30cm deep. One side got the wing shape (top/bottom, left/right) and the other was largely cut away to leave a webbed supporting structure in order to save weight. Since the wing skins are very thin, my guess is that there wouldn't be much heating. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing I don't know. I believe the aim was to reduce the finishing time required.
 
Top