15/40 engine oil

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Heckler

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Hi Stu. Obviously not a great response, but I've been wrestling with the same dilemma as my Perkins Perama specifies CC/CD (and I note that Morris's do a CC oil which is designed for canal boats - Golden Film Marine 10w/40 Engine Oil API CC/SF). I note however that the Magnol 15/40 also includes CF-4 in it's spec. Does that make it rather more highly specced than straight CD? And if so is that possibly detrimental I wonder? It all seems to be a bit of a minefield really. By the way I was in my local Tesco the other day and found Tesco brand mineral oil 'for older diesel engines' specced as 15W/40 API CF-4 ACEA A3/B3/B4 at just under £12 for 4 litres, so I'm thinking of giving that a try unless someone comes on with any horror stories. My only reservation so far is that the oil 'meets or exceeds' the spec and I think I would be happier to read that it just fell short, but they would never print that would they!

John
 
Don't know if it is similar but I asked Millers oil (I used their products in my rally cars) what they recommended fot the old naturally aspirated 6 cyl Fords in my boat. They suggested 20w40 Maxifleet 11.
 
I'm not sure about this Magnol 15W/40 it's got a quite a high Total Base number of 10 which I think is what we're trying to avoid. It's a pity you can't use a monograde because they are readily available from Morris(Golden Film) or Comma(HD30) and have the low TBN.
 
Lidl, the small German Supermarket do a product called Winergy 15/40 oil to API SJ/CF-4/CF which is good for the older diesel engine.

£9.99 for 5 Ltr.
 
I'm a fan of the Lidl oil, have been using it for about 4yrs in md7b after the equiv marine make (can't remmember its name !) disappeared from the chanderly.
The dog is a fan of the Lidl dogfood,- she loves it !
 
Found this .. Hope it helps

Oils Explained

What's written on your oil bottle and what does it mean.

1) The purpose for which it is intended (i.e. Motor oil, Gear oil etc)

2) The viscosity (i.e. 10w-40, 5w-30 etc for Motor oils and 80w-90, 75w-90, etc for Gear oils)

3) The specifications that it meets (should contain both API and ACEA ratings)

4) The OEM Approvals that it carries and the codes (i.e. MB229.3, VW503.00, BMW LL01 etc)

Ignore the marketing blurb on the label it is in many cases meaningless and I will explain later what statements you should treat this with some scepticism

So, what does the above information mean and why is it important?

THE BASICS

All oils are intended for an application and in general are not interchangeable. You would not for example put an Automatic Transmission Oil or a Gear Oil in your engine! It is important to know what the oils intended purpose is.

VISCOSITY

Most oils on the shelves today are "Multigrades", which simply means that the oil falls into 2 viscosity grades (i.e. 10w-40 etc)

Multigrades were first developed some 50 years ago to avoid the old routine of using a thinner oil in winter and a thicker oil in summer.

In a 10w-40 for example the 10w bit (W = winter, not weight or watt or anything else for that matter) simply means that the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity/flow at low temperature. The lower the "W" number the better the oils cold temperature/cold start performance.

The 40 in a 10w-40 simply means that the oil must fall within certain viscosity limits at 100 degC. This is a fixed limit and all oils that end in 40 must achieve these limits. Once again the lower the number the thinner the oil, a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100 degC etc. Your handbook will specify whether a 30, 40 or 50 etc is required.

SPECIFICATIONS

Specifications are important as these indicate the performance of the oil and whether they have met or passed the latest tests or whether the formulation is effectively obsolete or out of date. There are two specifications that you should look for on any oil bottle and these are API (American Petroleum Institute) and ACEA (Association des Constructeurs Europeens d'Automobiles) all good oils should contain both of these and an understanding of what they mean is important.

API

This is the more basic as it is split (for passenger cars) into two catagories. S = Petrol and C = Diesel, most oils carry both petrol (S) and diesel (C) specifications.

The following table shows how up to date the specifications the oil are:

PETROL

SG - Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge.

SH - Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability.

SJ - Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits

SL - Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards

SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.

Note:

All specifications prior to SL are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and SM specifications.

DIESEL

CD - Introduced 1955, international standard for turbo diesel engine oils for many years, uses single cylinder test engine only

CE - Introduced 1984, improved control of oil consumption, oil thickening, piston deposits and wear, uses additional multi cylinder test engines

CF4 - Introduced 1990, further improvements in control of oil consumption and piston deposits, uses low emission test engine

CF - Introduced 1994, modernised version of CD, reverts to single cylinder low emission test engine. Intended for certain indirect injection engines

CF2 - Introduced 1994, defines effective control of cylinder deposits and ring face scuffing, intended for 2 stroke diesel engines

CG4 - Introduced 1994, development of CF4 giving improved control of piston deposits, wear, oxidation stability and soot entrainment. Uses low sulphur diesel fuel in engine tests

CH4 - Introduced 1998, development of CG4, giving further improvements in control of soot related wear and piston deposits, uses more comprehensive engine test program to include low and high sulphur fuels

CI4 Introduced 2002, developed to meet 2004 emission standards, may be used where EGR ( exhaust gas recirculation ) systems are fitted and with fuel containing up to 0.5 % sulphur. May be used where API CD, CE, CF4, CG4 and CH4 oils are specified.

Note:

All specifications prior to CH4 are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date CH4 & CI4 specifications.

If you want a better more up to date oil specification then look for SL, SM, CH4, CI4

ACEA

This is the European equivalent of API (US) and is more specific in what the performance of the oil actually is. A = Petrol, B = Diesel and C = Catalyst compatible or low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur).

Unlike API the ACEA specs are split into performance/application catagories as follows:

A1 Fuel economy petrol
A2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
A3 High performance and/or extended drain
A4 Reserved for future use in certain direct injection engines
A5 Combines A1 fuel economy with A3 performance

B1 Fuel economy diesel
B2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
B3 High performance and/or extended drain
B4 For direct injection car diesel engines
B5 Combines B1 fuel economy with B3/B4 performance

C1-04 Petrol and Light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 low SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C2-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C3-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible, Higher performance levels due to higher HTHS.

Note: SAPS = Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous and Sulphur.

Put simply, A3/B3, A5/B5 and C3 oils are the better quality, stay in grade performance oils.

APPROVALS

Many oils mention various OEM's on the bottle, the most common in the UK being VW, MB or BMW but do not be misled into thinking that you are buying a top oil because of this.

Oil Companies send their oils to OEM's for approval however some older specs are easily achieved and can be done so with the cheapest of mineral oils. Newer specifications are always more up to date and better quality/performance than the older ones.

Some of the older OEM specifications are listed here and depending on the performance level of your car are best ignored if you are looking for a quality high performance oil:

VW - 500.00, 501.00 and 505.00

Later specs like 503, 504, 506 and 507 are better performing more up to date oils

MB - 229.1

Later specs like 229.3 and 229.5 are better performing more up to date oils.

BMW - LL98

Later specs like LL01 and LL04 are better performing more up to date oils.


FINALLY

Above is the most accurate guidance I can give without going into too much depth however there is one final piece of advice regarding the labelling.

Certain statements are made that are meaningless and just marketing blurb, here are a few to avoid!

Recommended for use where.....
May be used where the following specifications apply.....

Approved by...........(but with no qualification)

Recommended/Approved by (some famous person, these endorsements are paid for)

Racing/Track formula (but with no supporting evidence)

Also be wary of statements like "synthetic blend" if you are looking for a fully synthetic oil as this will merely be a semi-synthetic.

Like everything in life, you get what you pay for and the cheaper the oil the cheaper the ingredients and lower the performance levels.

Now we know .. :p .. :p .. :p .. Suprising what you can find on the Internet ..
 
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You need to remember that all of the above, good though it may be, applies largely to automotive use. No oil manufacturer produces an oil for cold-running, slow-revving, infrequently-used yacht auxiliary engines. The drive for 'high performance' oils comes from ever-increasing power outputs, high speed motoring for hundreds of miles on motorways and extended oil drain periods.

For a fuller explanatiion of our requirements see my website.
 
Information

Thought it might be interesting to know what all the numbers mean't .. At least you then have an idea what your buying then and how good or bad it actually is .. Will have a look at your website later .. :)
 
After ringing Morris Oils re:mineral oils, they recommended "Ring Free XC 15W40" for my Perkins 135.They first suggested "CC" as he assumed it was a canal boat,but when I told him it was a cruiser he said dont use "CC" as its designed for cool running slow reving engines such as canal boats,it has more detergents in it.
 
nedmin said:
After ringing Morris Oils re:mineral oils, they recommended "Ring Free XC 15W40" for my Perkins 135.They first suggested "CC" as he assumed it was a canal boat,but when I told him it was a cruiser he said dont use "CC" as its designed for cool running slow reving engines such as canal boats,it has more detergents in it.
Click to expand...

This oil is to API CG-4 with a TBN of 10. A little higher spec than I would prefer for a small auxiliary but a good choice for your bigger engine I think.
 
All of the above is very interesting and very specific. The following is anecdotal but may be of some interest.
I used to think using the highest specification would be the best. I have recently had two friends who have had old engines fail not long after oil changes. I have considered it could have been due to either problems caused by the oilchanges like filters not seated etc. When I discussed this with my Uncle, a lifelong car mechanic who has just retired, he said it could have been caused by using oil which had more "cleaning chemicals" than previous oils. The theory being that years of deposits sits on the internal surfaces of the oilways etc. until cleaned off by the new oil. These deposits then block the oilways/filter etc. I'm not fully convinced but will be using the same oil in my motor that has always been used.
Allan
 
I have been advised to get Texaco Diesel Engine Oil. (look it up on the internet)Aparrently the US military use it in both modern and ancient diesel engines. However I would remind fellow boat owners that just because your engine handbook recommends changing the oil at say 100 hours, you dont have to stick to that. You can do it every 50 or 75 hours if you want. In fact if you keep a record of your shorter oil changes when you come to sell the boat this may be the deciding point as whether your boat is chosen over another identical one.
 
Sorry chaps. In lieu of the Favourite Post button, I'll just comment that this is a cracking thread.
 
Jim@sea said:
I have been advised to get Texaco Diesel Engine Oil. (look it up on the internet)Aparrently the US military use it in both modern and ancient diesel engines. However I would remind fellow boat owners that just because your engine handbook recommends changing the oil at say 100 hours, you dont have to stick to that. You can do it every 50 or 75 hours if you want. In fact if you keep a record of your shorter oil changes when you come to sell the boat this may be the deciding point as whether your boat is chosen over another identical one.
Click to expand...


Is this the stuff you mean?

http://www.havoline.com/products/europe/motoroil_diesel.html
 
Effects of high TBN

vyv_cox said:
This oil is to API CG-4 with a TBN of 10. A little higher spec than I would prefer for a small auxiliary but a good choice for your bigger engine I think.
Click to expand...


Apologies if I've misread the comments above. I appreciate that CD spec oil is designed with TBN of around 4, but from what I can understand, TBN is the ability to neutralise the acid byproducts. Could someone explain why a high TBN would harm a low power Marine engine ( say Bukh 20).

Thanks

Chris
 
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