pvb
Well-Known Member
It wouldn't, of course! That's like saying how would the batteries receive a charge if you take the wiring out of the equation. Circuit diagrams are specific.
1/2/Both switch bust?
- Thread starter richardabeattie
- Start date
It wouldn't, of course! That's like saying how would the batteries receive a charge if you take the wiring out of the equation. Circuit diagrams are specific.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
If you have an engine battery connected to one switch and a domestic battery connected to the domestic circuits you must have a split charge system, or one battery would never get charged.
If you don't know what a diode pack is, how do yo know you haven't got one
Follow the largest red wire from the alternator, where does it go ? Google "split charge diode" for pics of what a diode looks like.
If it doesn't go to a diode it will go to the battery cable on the starter motor, the isolator switch or directly to one of the batteries. If that's the case, check what other connections go to the batteries or isolator switch, does one go from each battery to a VSR, Goggle will show you pics again.
Look at the back of the 3rd switch, where do the cables go ? If they are negative cables they should be black (no guarantee though) and will isolate the negative. If the two terminals have cables going to the other two switches it is an emergency switch. Do the cables go to the battery terminals or the load terminals ?
steveeasy
Well-Known Member
If you have an engine battery connected to one switch and a domestic battery connected to the domestic circuits you must have a split charge system, or one battery would never get charged.
If you don't know what a diode pack is, how do yo know you haven't got one
Follow the largest red wire from the alternator, where does it go ? Google "split charge diode" for pics of what a diode looks like.
If it doesn't go to a diode it will go to the battery cable on the starter motor, the isolator switch or directly to one of the batteries. If that's the case, check what other connections go to the batteries or isolator switch, does one go from each battery to a VSR, Goggle will show you pics again.
Look at the back of the 3rd switch, where do the cables go ? If they are negative cables they should be black (no guarantee though) and will isolate the negative. If the two terminals have cables going to the other two switches it is an emergency switch. Do the cables go to the battery terminals or the load terminals ?
No VSR,
Ill have a good look this week. The image below shows the switches. ive put a meter on the batteries and they both receive a charge so ive dug no further until now.
of course the engine is up the other way though!!
Steveeasy
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
If 1-2-B failed I would short out the terminals on the back of the switch, isn't that what anyone with 2oz's of common sence would do if any type of mechanical switch failed?
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
No, anyone with 2oz of common sense would fit a modern system with built in redundancy. It is often not a simple task to get to the terminals and short them out. Not really convenient when it's just fell apart and stopped the engine as you're crossing the Dover strait TSS.
RichardS
N/A
If it helps to understand what the VSR does, let me explain my system which doesn't have VSR.
All I have is a simple solenoid (well, two actually because I have two engines, two start batteries but only one house battery) which uses the heavy duty switched solenoid terminals to link the start specific start battery circuit for that engine with the common house battery circuit. The two terminals on the solenoid which activate the magnet and close the switched terminals are connected to the alternator output.
Engine not running = no alternator output = solenoid open = start batteries and house batteries not joined.
Engine running = alternator output = solenoid closed = start battery parallel connected with house battery bank.
So simple that even I can understand what's going on!
Richard
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solent clown
RIP
If it helps to understand what the VSR does, let me explain my system which doesn't have VSR.
All I have is a simple solenoid (well, two actually because I have two engines, two start batteries but only one house battery) which uses the heavy duty switched solenoid terminals to link the start specific start battery circuit for that engine with the common house battery circuit. The two terminals on the solenoid which activate the magnet and close the switched terminals are connected to the alternator output.
Engine not running = no alternator output = solenoid open = start batteries and house batteries not joined.
Engine running = alternator output = solenoid closed = start battery parallel connected with house battery bank.
So simple that even I can understand what's going on!
Richard
that is the most basic way we used to wire split chargers into vehicles, but with relays instead of solenoids (yes Ok they are really the same thing) However, it is not selectable for emergency use
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
The reason we stopped using solenoids or standard relays in favour of VSRs is that, should a battery fail in such a way that it can discharge the other batteries it is connected to, it will obviously flatten the lot. The VSR will open as the voltage drops, which prevents the good batteries from going flat.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Those are BEP, Marinco or Durite switches. If the two outer switches operate engine and domestic circuits and keep them isolated as you say, the centre switch should be an emergency switch. Unless you are turning all three on, you categorically must have a split charge system.
You keep saying "no VSR" how do you know this for sure ?
If no VSR you will likely have a diode pack, although there are other possibilities. Follow my steps in post #82
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
Ah, but have you had the accolade of VicS accusing you of "bias"?
I don't think I've ever had an online row with VicS. He must be the least argumentative regular poster on these forums, and very helpful with his chemistry knowledge. That must've been some thread.
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
I take the view that there's no need to turn on the engine battery except when you want to run the engine, or when you're at sea and want to be able to start the engine without going below.
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Why would broken 1-2-B switch stop the engine?
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Generally speaking, you're right, but some engines will stop if the switch is turned off.
There are plenty of other possibilities where failure of the switch would be bad news. Mine was mounted in such a way that you'd have to take all of the batteries and the battery box out to get at the terminals and i see that type of installation all of the time. I'd much sooner turn a switch than do all of that.
VicS
Well-Known Member
If it helps to understand what the VSR does, let me explain my system which doesn't have VSR.
All I have is a simple solenoid (well, two actually because I have two engines, two start batteries but only one house battery) which uses the heavy duty switched solenoid terminals to link the start specific start battery circuit for that engine with the common house battery circuit. The two terminals on the solenoid which activate the magnet and close the switched terminals are connected to the alternator output.
Engine not running = no alternator output = solenoid open = start batteries and house batteries not joined.
Engine running = alternator output = solenoid closed = start battery parallel connected with house battery bank.
So simple that even I can understand what's going on!
Richard
I am not sure I do though.
Surely the engine start battery is connected to the alternator output. Theerfore if your solenoid coil is connected to the alternator output it will have the full battery power applied to it even when the engine is not running.
Why does it not close as soon as the engine start battery isolator is closed? Is it voltage sensitive? ie does not close until the volts have risen to some higher figure. In other words is itjin fact just the same as a VSR ?
steveeasy
Well-Known Member
NO VSR cos ive not got one anywhere on board. I had one on another boat. In principle I understand what they do and they make a lot of sense.
The system I have now I don't fully understand what it is and therefore how it works. I asked for a simple diagram so I can have a mooch around and try and work it out. Unless ive missed it there is no diode, Just three switches. the wiring behind the switches is hard to follow and so ive just put a multimeter on the batteries. and they are both receiving a charge. Ive never had a flat battery nor a starting problem.
As to the wiring diagram. if you removed the VSR from the srawing, what would you add so the domestic battery received a charge when switched on ?.
edit,
by the way ive a yanmar 2ym 15 that has a control panal loom that is wired from the engine and all ive had to do is plug the panel in. simple. would a diode be hidden in that.
Thank you
Steveeasy
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pvb
Well-Known Member
A diode splitter perhaps? Ideally a low-loss type.
RichardS
N/A
You're getting a bit technical for me 'cos electrics are not my forte. However, If it helps, the solenoid electromagnet is not connected to the heavy duty cable which goes from the alternator to the batteries .... that heavy duty cable goes to one of the solenoid switched terminals. The electromagnet is connected to two terminals on the alternator which produce only a low current output when the alternator is actually running. I can't recall what those the low current output terminals are called but there is a 5A fuse in the cable so it's definitely not the 85A output.
Richard
richardabeattie
Well-Known Member
I'm the dim OP who started all this with a simple question as to whether my 1/2/B was defective and if so did it matter. Over 2,500 views since then and ten pages of discussion. I think the consensus answer to my question was yes it's not right but if Off gives off, not a real problem. But check it anyway.
But is there any chance of this thread reaching a conclusion on the best way of setting up a simple 2 battery system?
But is there any chance of this thread reaching a conclusion on the best way of setting up a simple 2 battery system?
VicS
Well-Known Member
It is difficult to fault pvb's scheme in #72
http://www.ybw.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70402&d=1523989110
Some might prefer to see the Ctek charger connected to the house battery rather than the starter battery
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VicS
Well-Known Member
TaYou're getting a bit technical for me 'cos electrics are not my forte. However, If it helps, the solenoid electromagnet is not connected to the heavy duty cable which goes from the alternator to the batteries .... that heavy duty cable goes to one of the solenoid switched terminals. The electromagnet is connected to two terminals on the alternator which produce only a low current output when the alternator is actually running. I can't recall what those the low current output terminals are called but there is a 5A fuse in the cable so it's definitely not the 85A output.
Richard
Probaby a "split charge relay" as illustrated and described in this link http://www.tb-training.co.uk/MarineE09.html
