Snubbers

[sailaboutvic]

Snubber ,

I just want to tell you of our experience 10 days ago , many here will know we are experience cruising and we live on our hook for 8 to 9 months every year and have been doing so for a very long time .
We been using a 14mm snubber in a V formation ( bridle ) on our 13.5 ton yacht,
Early hours on the 4th sept we was hit with a thunderstorm that's wasn't forecaster .
when we went to bed at 11.45 at which point other then thunderstorm some 300 miles away on the south of France there was no sign to concern us .
We would normally lay 7 meters of snubber in these light conditions, if there was any blow forecaster we lay 10 mts and plenty of chain.
This has seen us well in many storm conditions and never did I think we needed any thing longer because of the experience we had with this size snubber.
04.00 we had winds excess of 54 kts which when on for over hour and a half ,
I'm not making this up but part of the time the toe rail where in the water with the force of the wind and the boat pitching wildly .
Half way through this happening , we could hear the chain rattling every so offend ,
we knew we wasn't dragging so it took a few mins before I realise the chain was running out,
What was going through my head was if we get to the end of the chain the rope that connect in the locker was no way going to hold .

So it was a rush to sort the problem out ,
Going forward with a spare snubber In hailing rain in the dark and hanging on for dear life or so it felt like it ,
I connected the spare snubber between the windlass and the bow roller to stop any more chain running and as I was tighten it the boat dipped its bow the snubber hook came away and at force hit me just by my eye , another few mm and it would had taken my eye out .
Which left me with a very black eye .

Once thing settled down and at day light it turned out both snubber had snapped.
Being Bit taken back and shocked how two 14 mm both these rope broke I contact Jonathan Neeves to talk the problem over and get his option as I know he as done some test on snubber .
And he been very helpful , he confirmed that he would use Polyester Rope which is what we been using , and to use a bridle again which is what are set up is ,
Where we differ is he suggest taken it back to the winches , where our where always kept on the bow ,

So we will be taken his advice and extending the snubber to 20 mts each but because of the way the boat is we are unable to bring them to the winches without major conversion plus having to carry 40 mts of rope every time we anchor when most of the time there no need for it ,
I plain to split the number in four , leaving the snubber to 10 mts bridle but having an eye on the end of each rope , then having two more 10mts length with eye in so-when the time comes we can shackled them together, given us 20 mts bridle which we can then taken much further astern.


So what happen ?
I'm convince the snubber broke because
A of some wear inside the rope which couldn't be seen .
B we kept them in use for much too long so they where probity weaken ,
we be looking at replacing then every three years for now on .

Many here probably wouldn't be out anchoring in tho conditions but one has to remember thunderstorm can come from no where and even on the calmest of night and when not forecaster .

If we learned any thing it is replace snubber even if they look ok .
Connect the spare snubber what ever the conditions are to stop the chain being able to run if ever another snubber should break or the snubber hook some how falls off .

As for my eye , we consulted and eye specialist which to my relief he said there no long term damage and the lines I seeing will in time go ,
I consider myself very luck .



Jonathan thanks for your advise and the files you send me ,
You been very helpful and give lots of your time .
At less I know we was on the right road even tho the snubbers wasn't as long as they could had been .

Here a couple of facts .
We have many cruisers friends from around the world who we in touch with and many been in touch to see how I was
Ask about their snubber , many only have snubber no more then 7 or 10 mts
And no one have said they replace very often and only replace then if they start to wear .

Nearly everyone said they going to replace old snubber more then four years old this winter and many are now looking at they arrangement .

Maybe it's time you look at your ,

I got away lightly with a black eye .
It could have been much worst .

 

[NormanS]

What was supposed to be holding your chain when your snubber broke? Was it just relying on the windlass brake?

 

[jdc]

A scary time and I applaud your efforts and resolve!

You say Polyester rope, may I ask what kind (not make, but construction, ie 3-strand or 8-plait or braid-on-braid or whatever). And was it spliced or knotted, and what sort of splice?

I have to admit a slight axe to grind here: I dislike braided splices as it's quite impossible to judge by eye whether it's good and strong or just about to snap. So I always use cable laid or 8-plait ropes for anchor and snubbers.

 

[sailaboutvic]

A scary time and I applaud your efforts and resolve!

You say Polyester rope, may I ask what kind (not make, but construction, ie 3-strand or 8-plait or braid-on-braid or whatever). And was it spliced or knotted, and what sort of splice?

I have to admit a slight axe to grind here: I dislike braided splices as it's quite impossible to judge by eye whether it's good and strong or just about to snap. So I always use cable laid or 8-plait ropes for anchor and snubbers.

It's three strands both lines where independently splice on the hook , one snap about 2 mts from the bow , the other lower .
One might expect one to go but both , I guess once one went the other was left doing all the work .
As far as what make they where to be honest I can't remember it's been a while since I fitted them .
Normally if any wind are forecaster the second snubber goes on further up but with 5 poss10 kts forecaster over night we didn't bother fit it but then we never do if very light winds .

 

[Neeves]

Vic you were very, very lucky - makes me shudder to think how lucky. Good of you to post and underline the issues.

Someone may quote that nylon is not used as a mooring line for commercial vessels - for this reason - men have been killed by the whiplash. Sadly for a snubber you have to accept the downsides of elasticity - and be care fully. Its not only the hook - but the rope itself that is dangerous.

The other factor is that if you rig a bridle and one arm fails then the yacht will lie at an angle to the wind and the tensions will increase, over stressing the arm that is now taking the strain. If one arm fails it is reasonable to assume the other arm will fail soon after as they are both subject to the same lifespan and stresses. Putting effort into designing a bridle is good - bridles reduce veering and excessive veering is possibly one of the major causes of anchors dragging. The other factor is horsing, bow rising and falling in chop - elasticity reduces the impact.

The tension being managed by the snubber is making your life on board more comfortable - the same effect is found at the other end of your rode - the elasticity reduces the snatch loads on the anchor, both up and down and side to side.

Snubbers and bridles are consumables - their lifespan is dictated by the number of stress cycles and how large these stress cycles are. For nylon you should work on a WLL of about 10%, if the snubber regularly stretches more than 10% its being 'too' elastic. If it never stretches 10% its too inelastic. In the extreme, which one never hopes to experience then when the snubber stretches in a weather event 10% you should really be able, and simply able, to deploy a larger snubber - call it a storm snubber. If your snubber is not stretching and getting toward that 10% stretch (WLL) then your snubber is too beefy.

Snubbers are all about managing energy and the more stretch you have available the longer you snubber will last and more comfortable will be the yacht. 'Boat' or deck length snubbers to me are the minimum, we are using 30m snubbers, 2 off, as a bridle (we are 11.5m LOA with maybe 10m decks). We use 10mm climbing rope, it comes in 8mm, 10mm and 12mm sizes (and custom made - bigger). We were using 12mm rope but down sized - we have the approximate windage of a 45' Bav (I've crudely measured both). Deck length sounds loooooong - start your snubber at the transom - then you have deck length before you go outboard at the bow - and for most days (or nights) a deck length snubber + a bit - is fine. 10mm snubbers on a Bav sounds too small, as it might only be a single snubber, not a bridle, then go to 12mm - larger and you will not get the stretch.

As NormanS suggests you should never reply on your snubber as the fall back - you should have some form of chain lock so that if the snubber fails there is something else to restrain tension and it is not the windlass. We have a short strop, attached to a strong point and with another chain hook that is our fall back and we use the same device to secure the rode/anchor when on passage.

We have had 2 bridle arms fail - they fail like the sound of gunshot. There has never been any sign of wear - the damage has been internal.

The most elastic ropes available are climbing rope which are elastic both because they are made from nylon and because of their construction. Their braided outside cover is specifically designed to be abrasion resistant - but they will not last forever. Retire them before they fail, use them as non-critical mooring lines. You cannot splice climbing rope, you can knot, halyard knot works well - but is quite big and clumsy. Sewing is quite acceptable to make an eye - we use braided dyneema fishing line and then cover with shrink covers specifically supplied to cover splice on ropes (available off eBay or good climbing shops)

Read the article in July issue of YM and if you look at the images of the snubber itself - it has been sewn and covered with a shrink cover.

For more detail send me a PM.

Attaching a snubber to the rode is a contentious issue - we use a bridle plate, but have used a hook. Some hooks, sold in chandlers, are not good enough. Some swear by soft shackles - we have tried them but for 6mm chain but the chain is too small and fiddly (dark night in the rain). A hook is simple, drop in the slot - job done. Usage, hook or soft shackle - personal preference. We do not use a claw - we find them exceptionally difficult to release under any tensions as you need to align correctly to release. Our hooks come from the lifting industry and unlike the Oscalluti claw and the Witchard hook - will not bend (and the Witchard lock is downright dangerous - too prone to bending in use and then you cannot release the chain). With my blessing Viking Anchors have copied my bridle plate (my ego is enhanced by the thought someone actually wants to copy (I don't derive any financial benefit - so I'm not advertising) and they have developed their own hook - sort of along the lines of the bridle plate. Viking have offered me a decent meal when we meet - hope springs eternal Covid and geography make that offer welcome but unlikely to cost).

If you don't use a snubber, deck length or more, don't complain if your anchor drags!

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

There will be an article on 'hooks' in YM in the coming months and hopefully, later still, an article on the integrated and matching rode.

 

[Star-Lord]

Snubber ,

I just want to tell you of our experience 10 days ago , many here will know we are experience cruising and we live on our hook for 8 to 9 months every year and have been doing so for a very long time .
We been using a 14mm snubber in a V formation ( bridle ) on our 13.5 ton yacht,
Early hours on the 4th sept we was hit with a thunderstorm that's wasn't forecaster .
when we went to bed at 11.45 at which point other then thunderstorm some 300 miles away on the south of France there was no sign to concern us .
We would normally lay 7 meters of snubber in these light conditions, if there was any blow forecaster we lay 10 mts and plenty of chain.
This has seen us well in many storm conditions and never did I think we needed any thing longer because of the experience we had with this size snubber.
04.00 we had winds excess of 54 kts which when on for over hour and a half ,
I'm not making this up but part of the time the toe rail where in the water with the force of the wind and the boat pitching wildly .
Half way through this happening , we could hear the chain rattling every so offend ,
we knew we wasn't dragging so it took a few mins before I realise the chain was running out,
What was going through my head was if we get to the end of the chain the rope that connect in the locker was no way going to hold .

So it was a rush to sort the problem out ,
Going forward with a spare snubber In hailing rain in the dark and hanging on for dear life or so it felt like it ,
I connected the spare snubber between the windlass and the bow roller to stop any more chain running and as I was tighten it the boat dipped its bow the snubber hook came away and at force hit me just by my eye , another few mm and it would had taken my eye out .
Which left me with a very black eye .

Once thing settled down and at day light it turned out both snubber had snapped.
Being Bit taken back and shocked how two 14 mm both these rope broke I contact Jonathan Neeves to talk the problem over and get his option as I know he as done some test on snubber .
And he been very helpful , he confirmed that he would use Polyester Rope which is what we been using , and to use a bridle again which is what are set up is ,
Where we differ is he suggest taken it back to the winches , where our where always kept on the bow ,

So we will be taken his advice and extending the snubber to 20 mts each but because of the way the boat is we are unable to bring them to the winches without major conversion plus having to carry 40 mts of rope every time we anchor when most of the time there no need for it ,
I plain to split the number in four , leaving the snubber to 10 mts bridle but having an eye on the end of each rope , then having two more 10mts length with eye in so-when the time comes we can shackled them together, given us 20 mts bridle which we can then taken much further astern.


So what happen ?
I'm convince the snubber broke because
A of some wear inside the rope which couldn't be seen .
B we kept them in use for much too long so they where probity weaken ,
we be looking at replacing then every three years for now on .

Many here probably wouldn't be out anchoring in tho conditions but one has to remember thunderstorm can come from no where and even on the calmest of night and when not forecaster .

If we learned any thing it is replace snubber even if they look ok .
Connect the spare snubber what ever the conditions are to stop the chain being able to run if ever another snubber should break or the snubber hook some how falls off .

As for my eye , we consulted and eye specialist which to my relief he said there no long term damage and the lines I seeing will in time go ,
I consider myself very luck .



Jonathan thanks for your advise and the files you send me ,
You been very helpful and give lots of your time .
At less I know we was on the right road even tho the snubbers wasn't as long as they could had been .

Here a couple of facts .
We have many cruisers friends from around the world who we in touch with and many been in touch to see how I was
Ask about their snubber , many only have snubber no more then 7 or 10 mts
And no one have said they replace very often and only replace then if they start to wear .

Nearly everyone said they going to replace old snubber more then four years old this winter and many are now looking at they arrangement .

Maybe it's time you look at your ,

I got away lightly with a black eye .
It could have been much worst .

Wow! What a tale. Glad there were no serious injuries. Will not talk about my snubber methods now... but I will say that I use at least one chain stopper all the time (with snubber) as the last resort! The chain stopper is the chunky SS Lewmar one - there is a less chunky version - backing plate, 4x 8 inch screws etc etc. I see loads of people without a chainstop and they say they use a snubber so do not need one. When I know its going to get windy I use a short dynama strop with a chain hook on it and loop it over the Sampson post and attach it to the chain as a sacrificial chain stopper just in case. And when stopping for a short break i will just use the chain stopper without the snubber.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

If you place a rated mooring spring in your snubber length it also provides less snatch load on your line .

 

[Neeves]

I have been discouraged (which I have ignored) from mentioning that snubbers are sacrificial and either will fail or should be scheduled for replacement. The belief is that suggesting they are sacrificial will discourage people from using them, or one.

The life of a snubber? - how long do sails last? - how long is a piece of string? I simply don't know.

I see so few sensibly long snubbers (and almost exclusively 'unstretchable' bridles on catamarans) that uptake is superficial.

A short snubber, or those dog bone things etc provide some snubbing effect - if you want to maximise the use of a snubber you need an ability to accomodate a long stretch distance. Imagine a bungy jumper, imagine having a short snubbing distance, now move on from that awful thought - go for length.

We carry a complete replacement bridle.

There have been reports, see link below, that, we are not alone in carrying replacements, but you need to have a serious think of how you are going to install a replacement. There have been reports that people have had serious problems in installing the spare snubber - for a variety of reasons. If your snubber fails the weather might be awful, you may not have much room behind you. Scaremongering? if you carry a LR, EPIRB, Flares and a spare anchor you are comfortable with worst case scenarios - adding and knowing how to apply a spare snubber is hardly onerous.

Safety at Sea: Surviving a Powerful Storm in the Med

There are also reports on the recent impact of the storm in the Scillies, from members here.


A snubber increases the performance of any anchor, it makes a 'new gen' anchors (noting that some 'recent 'anchors are pretty average) even more reliable and will make an average anchor 'better' not necessarily reliable (dreams are still free).

Jonathan

 

[sailaboutvic]

I have been discouraged (which I have ignored) from mentioning that snubbers are sacrificial and either will fail or should be scheduled for replacement. The belief is that suggesting they are sacrificial will discourage people from using them, or one.

The life of a snubber? - how long do sails last? - how long is a piece of string? I simply don't know.

I see so few sensibly long snubbers (and almost exclusively 'unstretchable' bridles on catamarans) that uptake is superficial.

A short snubber, or those dog bone things etc provide some snubbing effect - if you want to maximise the use of a snubber you need an ability to accomodate a long stretch distance. Imagine a bungy jumper, imagine having a short snubbing distance, now move on from that awful thought - go for length.

We carry a complete replacement bridle.

There have been reports, see link below, that, we are not alone in carrying replacements, but you need to have a serious think of how you are going to install a replacement. There have been reports that people have had serious problems in installing the spare snubber - for a variety of reasons. If your snubber fails the weather might be awful, you may not have much room behind you. Scaremongering? if you carry a LR, EPIRB, Flares and a spare anchor you are comfortable with worst case scenarios - adding and knowing how to apply a spare snubber is hardly onerous.

Safety at Sea: Surviving a Powerful Storm in the Med

There are also reports on the recent impact of the storm in the Scillies, from members here.


A snubber increases the performance of any anchor, it makes a 'new gen' anchors (noting that some 'recent 'anchors are pretty average) even more reliable and will make an average anchor 'better' not necessarily reliable (dreams are still free).

Jonathan

I just read that link you posted then passed it on to Christine to read and we both said they almost described what we went through, other then we only had 54 kts and it wasn't the hook, that gave way but the ropes .
The conditions described where to a T .

we thanks our lucky stars there was only us and our US friends at anchor other wise we could had more problems.

 

[Neeves]

I did some tests on chain hooks:

This is an Oscalutti hook. New one on the right, tested one on the left.

You can see how the tested one has simply deformed - it did not 'break' as such but simply distorted and the chain simply falls out. Its a problem with using 316 stainless it has a low yield (bends easily).



And another view of the same hook, after testing




Below is the Mantus hook which seems to have been quietly withdrawn. Similar issue, the hook bends under tension, twists round as it bends and the chain slips out.

If you buy a hook from the lifting industry they clearly define that most hooks do not degrade the strength of the chain. Lifting hooks are specifically designed to spread the load over as much of 2 links as possible. If you look carefully at the end of the hook, top left, you can see that the jaw has a sharp edge. If you note where the chain failed - at the sharp edge in the jaw. The chain failed below its specification. In this case I 'arranged' to ensure the chain did not fall out but its designed to be used on a yacht - and we have little control over how items inveigle to arrange themselves - sh*t happens.

I believe the Witchard hook failed the same way - it simply distorted.




Reports of chain failure due to hooks are simply not in the public domain - so I have sensationalised. But the sharp edge in the jaw will do galvanising no good - and if you are like us - we attach the hook at our 10/20/30/40m marks - so we will use the same links over the coarse of a year and if the hook is poorly designed we are stressing the same links frequently (except we use well designed hooks (or our bridle plate). Suncorp in the US make a range of hooks - they have the exact same issues, made from 316, sharp edges in the jaw. The problem is common place.

If you read the link I provided above and note the comments reported by Vic - hooks do bend in use, the chain does fall out - my tests are not unrealistic, it does happen - but should not .

If you want a stainless hook look at Ketten and Waelder in their Cromox range or buy a hook from the lifting industry. Lifting hooks tend not to be galvanised, they are simply painted - so buy 2 (they are cheap) use one until it looks unsightly, rejuvenate one winter's night and repaint - having replaced the unhappy one with the spare you bought - for just this occasion.

Here is some bedtime reading on hooks:

Snubber Chain Hooks Revisited - Practical Sailor

Testing the Effects of Chain Hooks - Practical Sailor

And on how to rig a bridle that allows easy attachment of a second bridle - you need to think laterally to apply for a snubber (or read the July issue of YM)

A Snubber & Hook for all Occasions - Practical Sailor




Jonathan

 

[Star-Lord]

I have been discouraged (which I have ignored) from mentioning that snubbers are sacrificial and either will fail or should be scheduled for replacement. The belief is that suggesting they are sacrificial will discourage people from using them, or one.

The life of a snubber? - how long do sails last? - how long is a piece of string? I simply don't know.

I see so few sensibly long snubbers (and almost exclusively 'unstretchable' bridles on catamarans) that uptake is superficial.

A short snubber, or those dog bone things etc provide some snubbing effect - if you want to maximise the use of a snubber you need an ability to accomodate a long stretch distance. Imagine a bungy jumper, imagine having a short snubbing distance, now move on from that awful thought - go for length.

We carry a complete replacement bridle.

There have been reports, see link below, that, we are not alone in carrying replacements, but you need to have a serious think of how you are going to install a replacement. There have been reports that people have had serious problems in installing the spare snubber - for a variety of reasons. If your snubber fails the weather might be awful, you may not have much room behind you. Scaremongering? if you carry a LR, EPIRB, Flares and a spare anchor you are comfortable with worst case scenarios - adding and knowing how to apply a spare snubber is hardly onerous.

Safety at Sea: Surviving a Powerful Storm in the Med

There are also reports on the recent impact of the storm in the Scillies, from members here.


A snubber increases the performance of any anchor, it makes a 'new gen' anchors (noting that some 'recent 'anchors are pretty average) even more reliable and will make an average anchor 'better' not necessarily reliable (dreams are still free).

Jonathan

13 ton boat - I now use a 5m long 14mm snubber for normal and a 15m long 16mm one for stormier. All are obv sacrificial! I love buying new anchor plait nylon snubbers.
My first 50kn anchoring experiences I had a 4m 12mm snubber on! And the toe rail felt like it was dipping in the water!! Luckily it was a gust and lasted about 5-10 mins. The trusty snubber was about a year old and I immediately unhooked it and put on a new one because I knew all the stretch would have gone out by now. Obv in shallow water snubber need to be longer.

 

[Star-Lord]

Jonathan
[/QU[/QUOTE]

 

[Neeves]

13 ton boat - I now use a 5m long 14mm snubber for normal and a 15m long 16mm one for stormier. All are obv sacrificial! I love buying new anchor plait nylon snubbers.
My first 50kn anchoring experiences I had a 4m 12mm snubber on! And the toe rail felt like it was dipping in the water!! Luckily it was a gust and lasted about 5-10 mins. The trusty snubber was about a year old and I immediately unhooked it and put on a new one because I knew all the stretch would have gone out by now. Obv in shallow water snubber need to be longer.

You practice is better than most

It is impossible to know if you would have damaged the snubber - without knowing how much it stretched (which is why commencing the snubber at the transom is useful - as you can then place a mark on the deck and one on the snubber and actually see how much stretch is occurring). Mark it at a port light - and you can check from the cabin.

The only measure I know of sizing a snubber is - 'suck it and see' its not so much weight of yacht nor length - but a whole host of characteristics. Weight and length is part of the 'issue' but so is propensity to yaw (dinghy on bow, furled heads sails, how much real estate has been added over the cockpit). To me your snubbers, for every day use seem generous (too beefy, and too short) - but I don't know your yacht. But it bears mention that lightweight AWB can shear at alarming rates, think of a 13t x 45' with 8mm chain, - so the snatches at the end of a yaw will be large say compared to a long keeled heavier yacht, 45' x 20t, that might use much heavier chain, say 10mm or even 12mm.

I'd also mention - short snubbers, 5m, for everyday use, don't cater for the sudden and severe thunderstorm that appears over the hill ahead of you. You don't have time to replace the snubber - you are too busy cleaning up lunch and closing the hatches - again having a deck length snubber permanently deployed from the transom means your everyday snubber is always at least a decent minimum length. You can run the snubber between stanchions and toe rail, they will be neat and unobtrusive (if you want join the 21st century and use those soft shackles to neaten further ). If you use climbing rope the braided cover will protect the core from abrasion and UV and if you cleat at the transom and have, say 10m extra in a sheet bag - you can deploy an extra 5m very quickly (taking up the lazy loop of the chain - without need to touch the chain).

But thanks for posting - posts or reports on snubber usage are a bit thin on the ground.

I know the idea of replacing rope, any rope, but specifically snubbers costs money - but snubbers are cheaper than chain and weight less than chain - and work to higher windspeed than chain. The longer your snubber the more snatch it will accept without the need to replace. And - your chain is also sacrificial - its not a new concept - just a different schedule. Retired snubbers make good, non critical, mooring lines (which, mooring lines, are also sacrifical.)

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

All this talk of snubbers failing, just when they are most needed, demonstrates the absolute necessity of having the chain properly made fast. Vic hasn't answered my question, but I can only assume that his chain was just left on the windlass gypsy, and when the load came on it, the brake, if it was on, was insufficient to hold it. There's a lesson to be learned there.

 

[Neeves]

All this talk of snubbers failing, just when they are most needed, demonstrates the absolute necessity of having the chain properly made fast. Vic hasn't answered my question, but I can only assume that his chain was just left on the windlass gypsy, and when the load came on it, the brake, if it was on, was insufficient to hold it. There's a lesson to be learned there.

I'm boringly repetitive

In case you have been on Mars, on the Moon or in Patagonia - we use, what some consider, long snubbers, 2 of them - its called a bridle. I have links to our practices - if you need them

In each of my articles and posts I mention that we use a fall back for our snubbers.

Our fall back is a short strop attached to a strong point, independent of the windlass, with a chain hook that attaches to the chain. The chain between windlass and hook is slack. If the snubbers (bridle) fails we have a a fall back. We also carry a complete replacement bridle (and actually carry rope lengths that could be made to a bridle (which we use for mooring or shore lines).

Our system is not unique - you could use a chain lock - if you have suitable reinforcing for the chain lock,.

We also carry different anchors, for different seabeds and as spares and we have a complete spare rode (15m of chain 40m of 3 ply)

I agree with Norman - there is a lesson (and that lesson is part of another current windlass/clutch thread - don''t rely on the windlass as your fall back and don't rely on the clutch).

We use our fall back as a back up to the clutch when at sea - same procedure - we retrieve the anchor, attach strop/hook and then release the tension on the rode -the strop/hook takes the tension.


Yes snubbers fail, we have had 2 fail in 20 years - I have experienced a shackle failure once in 20 year; complete mainsheet track block explode once in 20 years; loss of mast on our X-99 once in 4 years; woman overboard, once in 4 years; lost anchor (retrieved), once in 20 years, replaced headsail twice in 20 years; exhaust elbows, around twice each in 20 years; run out of good red wine - never . Its a yacht - sh*t happens - be prepared, carry more red wine (or malt whisky). Adding a new bridle is a darn sight easier than dousing a Code Zero (screecher in multispeak) when the halyard fails, not our cat - even with 4 crew.

If our failure rate seems high - we sail hard. You are not contenders if you do not driving hard. Now that need for speed, remains. Averaging 10 knots over 100nm on a 38' x 7t fully victualled (and accused of being a Mono) puts big demands on the kit. When we get old - maybe we will learn about maturity . In the meantime we accept that snubbers fail - and plan ahead.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

NormanS has made me ponder.

He makes the valid point that some reports of snubber failure are at a time when you might rely on a snubber - and the failure is thus, at best, an inconvenience.

Really the use of long snubbers is recent and those that use them are on a steep leaning curve.

We are very used to seeing physical signs of degradation - our sails get baggy, our chain, anchor or anchor shackle noticeably rusts, we wear through the cover on our sheets or halyard. Our engine starts to misbehave or we now know the exhaust elbows is an issue and we take positive moves to attend, in advance or at the time - but the issues of the exhaust elbow are not catastrophic.

Snubbers are different - they suffer internal damage that cannot be seen and when overly stressed they fail catastrophically. Sad but true. There is no one correct answer - except check that the snubber works, normally, within the 10% stretch (as a WLL) and if this occurs frequently - retire and buy a new one.

But the fact that snubbers are now failing does mean an increased acceptance. Additionally though snubbers fail those who experience failed snubbers do not say 'never again' they see snubbers as being beneficial and want to replace what they had.

We are, in my estimation, moving forward.

Those that have had a failed snubber know how they used their snubber, for how long, under what conditions - and this have an idea of lengevity

One day we may have a means to measure snubber degradation - not impossible. Those that use snubbers are 'cutting edge' - the white rats - those whose snubber has failed have a measure - but none have, despite the failure, rejected the concept.

As Norman said

"There's a lesson to be learned there."

In fact more than one lesson:

First up and importantly

Snubbers work

Secondly

Check your snubber usage - and retire early rather than late (retire to mooring line application, waste not want not)

Jonathan

 

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old chain hook new one

 

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foreground is the daily 5m snubber

 

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the new mantus hook is a beast (like the swivel

 

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And here is the main chain stopper and around the Sampson post is the sacrificial one!! I had to crop this photo down so much you can not see my snubber - position may be controversial LOL