Nordhavns - the Marmite motorboat

[piratos]

I struggle to answer your comments though, 'cause I'm not sure to understand them.

Did you by chance mean roll amplitude (or period), rather than acceleration, when you said it's higher in a Nordie?

And re. ultimate stability, are you suggesting that it's lost at a higher or lower degree in a N., vs. other boats?


The point of the comparison among a 40' N. and a sportcruiser rolling adrift in a F4/5 also puzzles me.
Otoh, if you really think that it takes 10 minutes for either of these boats to settle and become uncomfortable, I understand why you are interested to read about that on a magazine...

What I say is that a high boat (Like the Nordhavns) start rolling early. They will quite early reach a higher degree of rolling than a lower boat (like the sportcruiser !)
The Nordhavn has a high end (ultimative) stability, dont expect them to capsize :encouragement:

As to the comparison you really seem to have misunderstood me - what i say is that the sportcruiser will roll less (degrees) lying dead in the sea than the Nordhavn. If you have never tried it, do it. First your boat will roll a lot and after a while she will actually settle.

One more issue that has not been mentioned. A Nordhavn has a huge amount of tank capacity (for its size).
There is a very big difference whether you calculate the stability with full or empty tanks. A Nordhavn has ballast to compensate the hight. Your boat may have a nothing or little ballast - the weight is spread all over the construction (with is good)

Imagine a coaster of say 5000 tons loaded to her marks with steel. The steel will barely fill more than the bottom of the cargohold - that same ship behave totally different if loaded homogenous to her marks with bulk cargo (grain, coal etc)

One final issue. I am not saying that stabs / gyro / stability tanks are not improving comfort. What I am saying is that with Nordhavn you probably cannot live without.

 

[MapisM]

As to the comparison you really seem to have misunderstood me - what i say is that the sportcruiser will roll less (degrees) lying dead in the sea than the Nordhavn. If you have never tried it, do it. First your boat will roll a lot and after a while she will actually settle.

No misunderstanding at all - for a moment you got me thinking that I mistakenly used the term "adrift", but apparently not!
And yes, I did try what you are suggesting - hence my doubt about how long it takes to settle: 10 mins is probably necessary for a supertanker...

 

[westernman]

I am not saying that stabs / gyro / stability tanks are not improving comfort. What I am saying is that with Nordhavn you probably cannot live without.

What about "fish" or "flopper stoppers"?
How effective are they compared to stabs or gyro?

 

[piratos]

What about "fish" or "flopper stoppers"?
How effective are they compared to stabs or gyro?

Well it depends on who you ask !

Stabs/gyros will take ard 90 pct of the roll.
Paravanes (fish) will take ard 60 pct - flopperstoppers are used stationary (drifting or anchoring) also ard 60 pct.
Some people claim its more than 60 pct, others say its max 50 pct.

How good (or bad) paravanes/flopperstoppers are depends on type, size and length of booms.
I can only guess, but haning flopperstoppers over the side without booms reduce by.... guess 30 pct, but if you are rolling 30 degrees either side in a swell and rolling is reduced to 20 degrees, it might well be worth the 100€ the flopperstoppers costl. AND they do not need any power at all.

At my homeberth the most disturbing is the pilotvessels racing past the Marina at night. You may sleep in totally calm water and suddenly the boat is rolling a lot, and I intend to test flopperstoppers at the berth (no booms)

Another possibility is passive or active Flume tanks, but used mainly for the professionals instalations.

 

[Bajansailor]

Further to my post above (#73) re Nordhavns arriving here in Barbados, another one arrived yesterday.
This is Dirona - a very pretty Nordhavn 52, who has been pottering around the world the past few years without fanfare and in fine style.
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:445631/mmsi:367448520/imo:0/vessel:DIRONA

I saw her on MarineTraffic AIS, recognised that she is a Nordhavn, but wasn't too sure which model, so went to the Nordhavn website to try and identify her - and I found this article about Dirona.

http://www.nordhavn.com/news/headlines/3600_passage/

She has just travelled 3,650 miles non-stop from St Helena to Barbados.
OK, they did almost stop briefly in the middle of the South Atlantic ocean to shut down the main engine (so that they could do an oil change at 250 hrs) and fire up the wing engine to keep way on while the oil change was being carried out.

On their Blog http://mvdirona.com/ they have written a nice article about using their wing engine for this purpose -
http://mvdirona.com/2016/01/oil-change-at-sea/

And they also offered this comment in their latest contribution http://mvdirona.com/2016/02/500-miles-to-barbados/
"We were particularily impressed with the Lugger wing engine—it ran like a champ" :

 

[Bajansailor]

Starlet and Southern Star also have their own Blogs - here is an interview with the owners of Starlet :
http://www.pendanablog.com/guest-interviews/2014/06/30/Mark-and-Jennifer-Ullmann---Starlet-N46

And a bit about them on the Nordhavn site - they do have a Blog, but that seems to have fizzled out a few years ago.
http://www.nordhavn.com/distance_pennant/boat_details.php?boat=426

Here is Southern Star's webpage :
http://www.southernstarnz.com/

With some comments about their visit so far to Barbados:
http://www.southernstarnz.com/2016/02/03/Barbados

 

[Bajansailor]

Further to the above comments re Dirona, Starlet and Southern Star, here is a nice interview (by the Builders) with the crews of these 3 vessels when they were altogether at Port St Charles marina here in Barbados.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrxAjHjkGFQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Bajansailor, thanks for all of your links. Much appreciated

 

[TwoHooter]

Bajansailor, thanks for all of your links. Much appreciated

+1

 

[MapisM]

+2!

 

[Megs20Burt!]

Agree with jfm. Nordhavns are not marmite boats at all. They're just a type of boat which is very fit for purpose and that purpose is crossing oceans. Very few other boats are fit for this purpose. But as I said, I think Nordhavn are missing a trick by not offering twins without some sort of compromise. As I understand it, the compromise is usually a reduction in fuel capacity and/or deletion of the dry exhaust system in favour of a more normal wet exhaust. Thats a shame because IMHO there would be a market for more intrepid coastal cruising types for twin engined Nordhavns without reduced fuel capacity. Agree that the interior styling is also a bit industrial and that could do with modernising too
As I understand it, Nordhavn are not exactly overrun with orders at present so maybe they should be looking to widen their market

Deleted User, a prediction that became fact with the launch of the N41 recently...??

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Deleted User, a prediction that became fact with the launch of the N41 recently...??

Apparently my cheque is in the post

I dont think my prediction was particularly clever. There's obviously a limited market for ocean capable customisable motorboats so the next logical step, if Nordhavn wanted to grow their sales, was always going to be a seaworthy coastal cruising range of production boats. Nordhavn have already tried to muscle in on the semi displacement coastal cruising (Fleming) market with their 59CP (which IMHO misses the spot) and the obvious next move was into full displacement coastal cruising boats with the N41 and new N51

Where I think Nordhavn have been a bit clever is by choosing to make this range in Turkey. I guess they must have realised that Europe (rather than the USA) is going to be the market where there is going to be the biggest focus on reducing fuel consumption in the future, given the ever rocketing price of diesel in Europe, and therefore where there is likely to be the most interest in economical displacement coastal cruising boats. Building those boats at their usual plant in China and exporting them into Europe though would be a big risk because of existing tariffs and the future threat of economic sanctions against Chinese built products and of course the transport costs from China to Europe adds to their costs. Turkey has a burgeoning boat building industry, still cheap labour costs and tariff free access to the EU market through their membership of the EU customs union so its an excellent place from which to serve the European market

I think Nordhavn are on to a winner with their N41/51 coastal cruising models and I'm sure this range will be expanded in the future

 

[TwoHooter]

Orders (referred to as commitments) for the N41 have reached 40 vessels. The factory is opening new larger premises.
Most Wanted: The Nordhavn 41’s popularity continues to rise – Nordhavn Yachts
Playing devil's advocate I would love to put a 41 alongside our 40 and see what (a) experienced boaters, and (b) new entrants think of the two designs. They are of course totally different boats so comparisons are odious, but even so....

Meanwhile the brokerage market is "hot", in the USA certainly, and judging by the very small number of boats for sale in Europe it's the same here: Nordhavn Brokerage: How to navigate the hot seller’s market – Nordhavn Yachts

I started this thread over 5 years ago. My personal view remains that Nordhavns are marmite boats. After visiting 42 marinas, harbours and ports (and 14 anchorages) since we bought the boat in 2015 we are used to people coming over to talk about it and enthuse about the concept, but we have also overheard people dismiss it as looking like a fishing boat, which is a fair comment. Perhaps the N41 is going to be a bit less marmity, and attract less polarised opinions.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I started this thread over 5 years ago. My personal view remains that Nordhavns are marmite boats. After visiting 42 marinas, harbours and ports (and 14 anchorages) since we bought the boat in 2015 we are used to people coming over to talk about it and enthuse about the concept, but we have also overheard people dismiss it as looking like a fishing boat, which is a fair comment. Perhaps the N41 is going to be a bit less marmity, and attract less polarised opinions.

Still dont agree. People have different opinions on every type of boat. One thing is for sure; a Nordhavn will get a lot more respect than the gin palace marina queens most of us own?

Yes the used market for Nordhavns and other offshore capable boats is very hot at the moment but to some extent that is always the case because in this relatively small sector of the market the manufacturers take care not to allow supply to exceed demand because they know resale value is vital to their brand image, unlike in the mainstream production motorboat market where everybody is chasing sales to meet production targets and during the bad times that means supply exceeds demand and used prices suffer as a result

 

[Bouba]

Orders (referred to as commitments) for the N41 have reached 40 vessels. The factory is opening new larger premises.
Most Wanted: The Nordhavn 41’s popularity continues to rise – Nordhavn Yachts
Playing devil's advocate I would love to put a 41 alongside our 40 and see what (a) experienced boaters, and (b) new entrants think of the two designs. They are of course totally different boats so comparisons are odious, but even so....

Meanwhile the brokerage market is "hot", in the USA certainly, and judging by the very small number of boats for sale in Europe it's the same here: Nordhavn Brokerage: How to navigate the hot seller’s market – Nordhavn Yachts

I started this thread over 5 years ago. My personal view remains that Nordhavns are marmite boats. After visiting 42 marinas, harbours and ports (and 14 anchorages) since we bought the boat in 2015 we are used to people coming over to talk about it and enthuse about the concept, but we have also overheard people dismiss it as looking like a fishing boat, which is a fair comment. Perhaps the N41 is going to be a bit less marmity, and attract less polarised opinions.

‘Looking like a fishing boat’ is a compliment to a trawler. Perhaps that is where the marmite is, those who ‘get’ trawlers and those that don’t. But, all in all, for reputation, for iconic appeal, for the sheer mystique of boat dreams, nothing can touch a Nordhavn. It’s name (which no one understands what it is) is like liquid gold in the boating world

 

[Megs20Burt!]

Orders (referred to as commitments) for the N41 have reached 40 vessels. The factory is opening new larger premises.
Most Wanted: The Nordhavn 41’s popularity continues to rise – Nordhavn Yachts
Playing devil's advocate I would love to put a 41 alongside our 40 and see what (a) experienced boaters, and (b) new entrants think of the two designs. They are of course totally different boats so comparisons are odious, but even so....

Meanwhile the brokerage market is "hot", in the USA certainly, and judging by the very small number of boats for sale in Europe it's the same here: Nordhavn Brokerage: How to navigate the hot seller’s market – Nordhavn Yachts

I started this thread over 5 years ago. My personal view remains that Nordhavns are marmite boats. After visiting 42 marinas, harbours and ports (and 14 anchorages) since we bought the boat in 2015 we are used to people coming over to talk about it and enthuse about the concept, but we have also overheard people dismiss it as looking like a fishing boat, which is a fair comment. Perhaps the N41 is going to be a bit less marmity, and attract less polarised opinions.

In my very recent experience with looking to change our boat for something a little bigger, my wife continues to see traditional Nordhavns as ‘fishing boats’. Seeing as how she will contribute 50% of the cost to change, my sales strategy for owning a Nordhavn was faltering until she saw...the N41
To quote her “That one looks nice, doesn’t look like a fishing boat”. ?
So, now I can arrange a viewing!
I agree Mike, Nordhavn are on a winner with these new boats. Issue now is the 2 year wait.

 

[Bouba]

In my very recent experience with looking to change our boat for something a little bigger, my wife continues to see traditional Nordhavns as ‘fishing boats’. Seeing as how she will contribute 50% of the cost to change, my sales strategy for owning a Nordhavn was faltering until she saw...the N41
To quote her “That one looks nice, doesn’t look like a fishing boat”. ?
So, now I can arrange a viewing!
I agree Mike, Nordhavn are on a winner with these new boats. Issue now is the 2 year wait.

Fortunately my wife loves trawlers, she knows all the brands and is very good at spot the boat.
Unfortunately my wife won’t let me have another boat (although, in the interests of fairness, she did say I could get a new car)

 

[MapisM]

my wife continues to see traditional Nordhavns as ‘fishing boats’

In my experience, these views (mostly from women, but not only) are much more driven by the reverse slanted windscreen alone, rather than all the rest of the boat.
A solution that makes a lot of sense as we all know, but does scream "commercial".
They managed to smooth that a bit witn the N41, but (to my knowledge) the only Nordies where they completely departed from that principle were the 50 and 57.
Both now phased out, but occasionally available on the used market, and in several ways they can be considered among the last of their best boats.
Maybe worth showing to your wife and check out what she thinks...

 

[Megs20Burt!]

In my experience, these views (mostly from women, but not only) are much more driven by the reverse slanted windscreen alone, rather than all the rest of the boat.
A solution that makes a lot of sense as we all know, but does scream "commercial".
They managed to smooth that a bit witn the N41, but (to my knowledge) the only Nordies where they completely departed from that principle were the 50 and 57.
Both now phased out, but occasionally available on the used market, and in several ways they can be considered among the last of their best boats.
Maybe worth showing to your wife and check out what she thinks...

Yes, I agree, it is definitely a mindset. We had a quick look around at a Merry Fisher 895/1095 which was on display where our boat is berthed and she kind of said the same thing about those. We were not serious about buying one, but after 32 years together, I know what she does and does not like. Hopefully, we will get down to the Soton Boat show and have a good look around.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Fortunately my wife loves trawlers, she knows all the brands and is very good at spot the boat.
Unfortunately my wife won’t let me have another boat (although, in the interests of fairness, she did say I could get a new car)

Who would you say wears the trousers in your relationship then?