New sails shopping: Contender Pro Hybrid vs Hydranet vs Laminate? Please advise!

[gregcope]

Hi,

I am looking at new sails. Performance Cruiser would be the best description of what I am after. We do no race, but would like something with some go. Longevity is a thing as I would like them to last... We do mostly coastal cruising or loitering around the Solent. Sail stays in a stackpack or rolled on the furler. Ie not ideal storage (ie often damp). Sails are on six months of the year when on the mooring (off when in the car park!).

This is for a Starlight 35; Large roach main, 135% Genoa.

I am steering away from Laminates unless someone can convince me otherwise.

Have narrowed it down to;

• Contender Pro Hybrid (PH8.65). Dyneema in the weft and warp.
• Dimension Polyant Hydranet radial (HNR343). Dyneema t in the warp.

Any thoughts / Feedback?

Thanks

 

[Concerto]

After talking with a number of sailmakers, the general concensus is Vectran is the best sailcloth for a longlife sail to hold it's shape. That is what I chose and am very pleased with them still after 6 years.

 

[BabaYaga]

Have narrowed it down to;

• Contender Pro Hybrid (PH8.65). Dyneema in the weft and warp.
• Dimension Polyant Hydranet radial (HNR343). Dyneema t in the warp.

Any thoughts / Feedback?

Thanks

It seems that Contender now also offers the all-dacron Radian cloth, originally developed by North sails and until lately only available for North branded radial sails. Might be worth a look.
Fibercon® ProHybrid Powered with Dyneema - Contender Sailcloth

 

[Tranona]

Another vote for Vectran. Very competitive pricing (at least when I had a new main made last summer) from UK lofts.

 

[Koeketiene]

Ordered new sails last year.
Stayed away from laminate (once bitten, twice shy).
In the end, I opted for Hydranet.
As they're only a year old, I can't comment on longevity, but I certainly pleased with the performance boost that came with new sails.

 

[Dave100456]

Ordered Hydranet fully batten main, solent and staysail 4 years ago. 10,000+ miles and still great shape and condition. I had them serviced at 3 yrs and only very minor attention was needed.

 

[gregcope]

I had not considered Vectran based cloths. I thought Vectran was damaged by UV.

I had been steering towards Dyneema. You can never have too much Dyneema. Can you?

 

[Daydream believer]

. The Op & others, have quoted different names, but what are the differences. Is it just brand names adopted by the sail maker for the same material- (for the same sail made in the same loft in China)?
I have Fibrecon from Hyde & am happy. I do not know if that is just another name for the same cloth. However, the sail is made in their loft, albeit in the Philipinnes.

 

[Tranona]

. The Op & others, have quoted different names, but what are the differences. Is it just brand names adopted by the sail maker for the same material- (for the same sail made in the same loft in China)?
I have Fibrecon from Hyde & am happy. I do not know if that is just another name for the same cloth. However, the sail is made in their loft, albeit in the Philipinnes.

While some are variations on a basic theme, other names indicate different material and or construction. When I did my research I found it easy to identify what the differences were and to a certain extent what those meant in practice. Fibrecon is one of the better basic Dacrons - I am having this for the new mainsail for my GH (but made in the UK). However for the mainsail that I bought last year for my Bavaria I chose Vectran, because the cloth is a different structure and type of fibre which is much more stable and long lived. Stability is particularly important for a furling mainsail. These advanced hybrid cloths (Vectran and Hydranet for example) are roughly 50% more expensive than Dacron, but significantly cheaper than laminates.

Inevitably when you get quotes and advice from different sources you get conflicting and sometimes even contradictory views. This is inevitable when there is so much choice and manufacturers and sailmakers are all trying to differentiate themselves in a competitive market. At the end of the day for some people sails are just a commodity but others might look for and be prepared to pay for something that is "better" - not just the sail but the level of service and involvement.

 

[BabaYaga]

Fibrecon is one of the better basic Dacrons

It seems to me that 'fibercon' is not a specific cloth quality, but a very broad umbrella name for pretty much all of the woven polyester/hybrid sailcloths from this particular manufacturer.
Woven Sailcloth

 

[johnalison]

I went for laminate for the jib and Hydranet for the main after my previous successful experience with a laminate jib over twelve years. The ability of the laminate to keep its shape even when part-furled was the chief attraction, even though we had no ambitions to race at the time. A laminate sail should last well if properly cared for, ie not allowed to flog. My habit of furling the sail in the shadow of the main downwind has undoubtably helped. I used a jib cover on my first laminate for a while but it tended to abrade the taffeta and was abandoned in favour of a UV strip.

 

[Channel Sailor]

Consider Pro_Radial from dimension-polyant.com. Works for me on radial cut sails that are several years old now. Appears to be very robust and a lovely shape. I particularly like the mainsail. The price was what attracted me too.

Previously I had a laminate pentex(?) main which delaminated after maybe 7-8 years. Also standard weave dacron for a genoa as a what I think was a bi radial which appeared to cause too much heel and leeway after a similar period of use, probably because the leech was hooked somewhat.

I sail solo or with sometimes inexperienced crew. Reefing for example can take a while. When going downwind the mainsail rests on the spreaders. Also I wanted the sails to have a value to another owner if I sold the boat. For performance only and a bigger budget to blow over a few years then I would have chosen laminate of some kind, possibly this newish moulded shaped techniques. There is a lot of stitching on a radial cut dacron sail, which means overlapped sail cloth at the stitching which in turn means more weight per squ m. Everything is sailing is often a compromise and how deep are your pockets.

 

[geem]

We opted for DP made Vectran. As a rule of thumb on a boat doing average speeds of around 6kts you can expect about 20,000nm out of a basic Dacron sail. The shape will have gone bad a long time before this. Opting for Vectran, you can expect to double the life and maintain sail shape far longer. This is all based on long distance sailing. I suspect if you coastal sail short distances the extra sail handling will increase wear and your life expectancy may be a little lower. I have been told by a couple of knowledgeable sources that hydranet is super durable but as it ages it stretches like crazy giving poor sail shape. It seems the best use of hydranet is to reinforce edges of Dacron sails to resist chafe.
having had laminate sails we won't ever make that mistake again. Catastrophic failure is not something you need on four year old sails mid Atlantic.

 

[John_Silver]

Have had good service from Stargazer's DP Hydranet Radial jib. From both a durability and shape retention point of view. (I have heard Hydranet cross-cut, which reputedly contains less dynema, less well spoken of). Currently having a cross-cut main made up in the Bainbridge version of Vectran (HSX-V).
Whether the sail is to be cross-cut or radial is a factor in cloth choice. My understanding is that Vectrans are optimised for cross-cut. Hydranet radial, for radial. Certainly there are plenty of factors to weigh up, when choosing sailcloth! FWIW here's what my researches turned up and the decision process which I went through. Stargazer is a Rassy 310.
PS my experience with a laminate jib mirrors geem's. Catastrophic failure, at three years. Ours coming back up through Biscay.

 

[geem]

Have had good service from Stargazer's DP Hydranet Radial jib. From both a durability and shape retention point of view. (I have heard Hydranet cross-cut, which contains less dynema, less well spoken of). Currently having a cross-cut main made up in the Bainbridge version of Vectran (HSX-V).
Whether the sail is to be cross-cut or radial is anther important factor in cloth choice. My understanding is that Vectrans are optimised for cross-cut. Hydrant radial, for radial. Certainly there are plenty of factors to weigh up, when choosing sailcloth! FWIW here's what my researches turned up and the decision process which I went through. Stargazer is a Rassy 310.
PS my experience with a laminate jib mirrors geem's. Catastrophic failure, at three years. Ours coming back up through Biscay.

There are different version of Vectran cloth for crosscut and radial.

 

[Daydream believer]

My fibrecon is with Dynema & was quite a bit more expensive than a laminate sail. In 5 years there is no sign of problems but in the last 2 years I have only managed total 1300 miles instead of the usual 2000 PA for obvious reasons

 

[Ingwe]

If you want longevity, but the shape advantages of modern sails have a look at North Sails 3di Nordac.

 

[gregcope]

So seems like a mixed bag for Laminate.

Vectran gets some mentions. I really try and avoid flogging sails. Sometimes with a Genoa when furling it can be tricky to avoid. When it happens I try to avoid crying.

 

[fredrussell]

Just to throw another one into the mix, I’ve just had a mainsail made by Jeckells using Marblehead sailcloth. To be honest, I know very little about sail cloth types and was happy to take their advice. Seems to be a better known cloth the other side of the pond, where it has its fair share supporters and good reviews.

 

[geem]

Just to throw another one into the mix, I’ve just had a mainsail made by Jeckells using Marblehead sailcloth. To be honest, I know very little about sail cloth types and was happy to take their advice. Seems to be a better known cloth the other side of the pond, where it has its fair share supporters and good reviews.

Marblehead is a top quality plain Dacron. I think DP Square is another very good cloth. We got 27,000nm out of our DP Square Genoa. Vectran by comparison will hold its shape longer and last twice as long. But you have to pay for it