Greemble
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- Joined
- 4 Nov 2012
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- Close to the Edge, Down by a River
You do realise that is the very definition of trolling?
...and you have the bare-faced audacity to accuse someone else of this
Migrants, have you personally been affected when sailing?
- Thread starter Tomahawk
- Start date
...and you have the bare-faced audacity to accuse someone else of this
Poignard
Well-known member
tillergirl
Well-known member
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I can always tell when the other side is beginning to feel that they are loosing the discussion- They tend to sink into insult or derogatory remarks rather than counter the facts.
Poignard
Well-known member
Do you really think there are two "sides" here?I can always tell when the other side is beginning to feel that they are loosing the discussion- They tend to sink into insult or derogatory remarks rather than counter the facts.
I don't think so but if you do, how would you define these two sides?
I think it's far more nuanced. I do think there are many different personalities here with different attitudes to life.
If we had to work together we would have to get along but here there is no common purpose to make us bite our tongues.
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Mister E
Well-known member
Then someone suggests torture, what have they done to deserve Fray Bentos pies.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
So there is not 2 sides?
So what you are saying is that Tomahawk agreed with my comment about Cop 26 being a waste of time & you agree with my view about the rescue of immigrant boats being too dangerous for yachtsmen to attempt.
Somehow, I think not & it could run & run,, but not in this thread me thinks
Trouble with forums is that people start to take them seriously
Poignard
Well-known member
What on earth are you talking about?So there is not 2 sides?
So what you are saying is that Tomahawk agreed with my comment about Cop 26 being a waste of time & you agree with my view about the rescue of immigrant boats being too dangerous for yachtsmen to attempt.
Somehow, I think not & it could run & run,, but not in this thread me thinks
Trouble with forums is that people start to take them seriously
Trouble with forums is that some people, on realising their position is untenable, pretend they weren't being serious in the first place.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Oh come on !! For heavens sake - Unless it is genuine advice on something technical, or boat handling etc. - does anyone take things on forums seriously?
Nothing wrong with friendly banter & it needs to be seen to remain as such
oldgit
Well-known member
Oh come on !! For heavens sake - Unless it is genuine advice on something technical, or boat handling etc. - does anyone take things on forums seriously?
Nothing wrong with friendly banter & it needs to be seen to remain as such
..............................just like the friendly banter at the YCC.... ??
Tomahawk
Well-known member
Oh come on !! For heavens sake - Unless it is genuine advice on something technical, or boat handling etc. - does anyone take things on forums seriously?
Nothing wrong with friendly banter & it needs to be seen to remain as such
The FAT seem to take people very seriously and delete things they don’t like.
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
Can I remind people of this thread a couple of years ago? It's still relevant.
Legal and moral responsibilities at sea
Legal and moral responsibilities at sea
Kukri
Well-known member
If you are the Master of a British vessel, you have been legally required to render all reasonable assistance short of endangering your own crew and passengers since the Merchant Shipping Act of 1894.
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
And even when it couldn't be proved that the master of a vessel had failed in this duty, the masters concerned have been ostracized. See Stanley Lord - Wikipedia
Lord was never PROVED to have failed to respond to Titanic's distress signals, but it was widely felt that he SHOULD have responded to what he and his crew did see. If had done so, no doubt the death toll would have been much less, as the California was the nearest vessel by far.
Kukri
Well-known member
Off topic, but I am very much in the Stanley Lord camp. He was treated shamefully. Lightoller, the senior surviving officer of the Titanic, fared little better, being treated as a Jonah.
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
I'm in the agnostic camp. He did see rockets, and he did fail to respond to them, despite rockets of any colour being a distress signal at the time. He also did not waken his radio operator to use "all means at his disposal" to find out the situation. That said, he did render assistance at a later point, and his evidence was given at short notice without any warning that it might be used against him, without any legal representation. He was never censured by either the American or British boards of enquiry. He was supported by others in the shipping trade, and was given positions as captain later in life.
I don't know, and at this point, I doubt if it could ever be settled one way or the other. Given that Titanic went down 13 miles from the position she reported, and no doubt other ship's navigation had similar accuracy, the relative position of the various ships involved is beyond discovery. California might have been close enough to render assistance; there were reports from survivors of ship's lights being seen, but WHICH ship? With a 13 mile uncertainty on the position of the ships that we know to have been in the area, it leaves a lot of possibilities. A ship without radio - and it was by no means universal at that time - might never have been aware of the sinking, and there are certainly suggestions that there was at least one ship that was never identified.
You pays your money and takes your choice!
Kukri
Well-known member
Captain Lord passed for Master at 23, not unusual, and passed his Extra Master’s three months later. That was unusual. He got command at 28, and was 33 when given the Californian, which was a cargo passenger liner, on the New Orleans - Liverpool route, mainly carrying cotton. This was quite an important command.
I think his fault was one that I have myself reprimanded Masters, particularly British Masters, for - he had been on the bridge for seventeen hours. He was worn out. He had turned in in his clothes on the bridge couch.
His R/O had passed on the message that Lord had given him - that the Californian was in heavy ice and had stopped - to the Titanic (a sister ship - both the White Star and Leyland lines were part of JP Morgan’s International Mercantile Marine) and been told to “shut up” by the Titanic’s senior R/O. At which point the Californian’s R/O (she had one, not two - most ships had no radio) had switched off and gone to bed.
I think his fault was one that I have myself reprimanded Masters, particularly British Masters, for - he had been on the bridge for seventeen hours. He was worn out. He had turned in in his clothes on the bridge couch.
His R/O had passed on the message that Lord had given him - that the Californian was in heavy ice and had stopped - to the Titanic (a sister ship - both the White Star and Leyland lines were part of JP Morgan’s International Mercantile Marine) and been told to “shut up” by the Titanic’s senior R/O. At which point the Californian’s R/O (she had one, not two - most ships had no radio) had switched off and gone to bed.
Poignard
Well-known member
And, at that time, there was no automatic equipment to recognise an incoming distress message and alert the Radio Officer.
Kukri
Well-known member
I think the MAIB report is as good as anything:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...isalOfEvidence-SSCalifornian-Titanic-1992.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.g...isalOfEvidence-SSCalifornian-Titanic-1992.pdf
Daydream believer
Well-known member
When they interviewed, captain Philips, the captain of a ship taken by pirates (about which a really good film was made) was asked about why he had not used greater efforts to make his ship's wash bigger to sink the small pirate fast launches.
He actually said that he checked from his bridge that the pirate vessels were Ok, as he felt that if he had capsized any, he would be obliged to turn back to rescue any possible survivors.
And that is from a captain who was being shot at by the people he might have to save.