Engine ECU's end of life

[petem]

I assume at some point VP will discontinue the supply of ECU's. Does anyone know when tis is likely to be for KAD44's for example and what the workaround would be if one fails?

 

[Whitelighter]

PCB repair bods will likley be able to repair them.

They fixed my Miele induction hob when Miele wanted £900+VAT for a new PCB

I doubt VP use non standard PCB components, and there will be a limited number of things that can fail. The KAD series ECUs are (by modern standards) pretty simple things

 

[BruceK]

Best not to ponder these things Pete. It will only give you ulcers. The KAD 42 and I think the 43 too do not have ECU's so pretty sure there will be a work around even if that work around is a downgrade at worst. However I do not think you really need to worry on that score. I cant see an electronic device ever being irreplaceable. Mechanical yes but not ECU

 

[petem]

I'm sure that Vas could knock up an ECU with £50 worth of Arduinos so I like to think that some enterprising company will manufacture functional equivalents when the time comes. I guess they'll need to reverse engineer the code / maps / config though unless VP open source it.

 

[BruceK]

I'm sure that Vas could knock up an ECU with £50 worth of Arduinos so I like to think that some enterprising company will manufacture functional equivalents when the time comes. I guess they'll need to reverse engineer the code / maps / config though unless VP open source it.

I'm sure he could. £500 to his customer base though.............

 

[petem]

I'm sure he could. £500 to his customer base though.............

I'd gladly buy one for £500 if it was made of generic components and included a backup of the software, etc. Would be better than the €2900 that VP want for a new one.

 

[BruceK]

Ahh. OK. I undersold him.

Sorry Vas! :ambivalence:

 

[julians]

for modified petrol engines (ie race/track cars) you can get aftermarket ECU's (google for a motec ecu for an example of a high end programmable ECU) that are fully open (ie fully programable) and allow you to run your engine with various extra enhancements that would not be possible with the manufacturers standard ecu, ie higher lift/duration cams, turbo's, exhaust changes etc etc. These type of ECU's will work with any petrol engine, you just need to make sure the map is appropriate for the engine in question. I have one such ECU from a company called DTA that runs the Ford engine in my caterham 7.

I bet theres similar out there for common rail diesel engines.


edited to add : just googled and found this - I presume it could be made to work with a VP marine diesel, if the VP ecu itself cannot be repaired . Repairing what you have would be the easiest route, but if thats not possible ......

https://www.bodylogicuk.com/index.php/9/

I guess there must be many more as well.

 

[volvopaul]

I assume at some point VP will discontinue the supply of ECU's. Does anyone know when tis is likely to be for KAD44's for example and what the workaround would be if one fails?

Pete , I see absolutely no reason why VP would discontinue supply of engine ECU , there are too many engines out there worldwide .
I have yet to find a company that can repair one , there are plenty of car ECU repair companies out there but none understands the way the Volvo system works because it also controls the shift system .
In terms compared to a car or van system it’s very simple but purely designed around the workings of a marine engine.

Engines such as the D9 D11 and D12 are all used in industrial applications but do not use the same ECU or software , the programming is purely for marine use plus the power outputs in marine leisure are much higher as the duty cycle is less .

I wouldn’t start worrying yet , Volvo have a fantastic parts operation , yes some items get back ordered but that’s often down to world demand on certain items , I tend to find that certain failures often repeat themselves on a regular basis therefore there sometimes a shortage can occur .

 

[vas]

since my name has been mentioned in this thread my 2drachma worth:

funnily enough my first pet programming project back in 2004-5 was reverse engineering my Fiat Coupe ECU and deciphering various maps and obviously reprogram it
wasn't easy, wasn't a fast process and I had wideband lamda and EGT gauges to figure out what i'm doing on a conveniently . motor still going so haven't done that bad and it's now 330whp from the 195hp originally (but other than the block not much is left stock...)

probably Pete is right, doubt it would be more than 100euro in h/w (and half of it will be the box and the multipin connector!), HOWEVER I'm pretty sure maps are not in public domain so it wont be an easy task reverse engineering it. Talking about hundred of hours (and possibly a few dead motors in the process ) If noone has done it already, probably be for a reason

NZ and AU are countries for some reason I don't really know that have a GREAT reputation on ECUs, car electronics, and anything aftermarket suchlike. So would probably worth searching there.

as VP says, I'd not be worried, would be silly to call that EOF when it probably costs nothing to them to manufacture and can charge 2-3K for it, they definitely not stupid!

so relax and enjoy boating pete

cheers

V.

 

[burgundyben]

Arduino won't work - its not a real time device. You'll be trundling along at 20 knots when it decides to do some housekeeping function in the processor and you'll fall off the plane.

VP will be forced into obsoleting the part at some point by the fast moving electronics components market. Grey market and last time buys of obsolete surface mounts, BGA's etc won't last for ever. Even Volvo with their buying power would not have leverage on that industry to commission components.

Aftermarket ECU is viable, its just a real-time computer with half a dozen inputs, half a dozen outputs and some data in tables. There might even be an open source solution for those wanting to mess about. Getting the various data tables right to deliver power and protect the engine would require skill and combustion knowledge.

ECU repairs firms in the back of Exchange and Mart do not have the equipment to emulate the ECU working, all they can do is pop the lid off and look for cracked solder joints, damaged tracks or damaged components and replace them with similar. Its pretty low level/barn door approach.

 

[kashurst]

don't get too worried, I have an old Porsche 944 with a 30 year electronic Bosch fuel injection system, it still runs beautifully - it's the hours run, not the years of age that tends to matter most with electronic stuff. As long as its warm(ish) and dry, the ECU should last a very long time. The Volvo KAD fuel injection pump is made by Bosch, the ECU is probably made by Bosch too

 

[volvopaul]

Arduino won't work - its not a real time device. You'll be trundling along at 20 knots when it decides to do some housekeeping function in the processor and you'll fall off the plane.

VP will be forced into obsoleting the part at some point by the fast moving electronics components market. Grey market and last time buys of obsolete surface mounts, BGA's etc won't last for ever. Even Volvo with their buying power would not have leverage on that industry to commission components.

Aftermarket ECU is viable, its just a real-time computer with half a dozen inputs, half a dozen outputs and some data in tables. There might even be an open source solution for those wanting to mess about. Getting the various data tables right to deliver power and protect the engine would require skill and combustion knowledge.

ECU repairs firms in the back of Exchange and Mart do not have the equipment to emulate the ECU working, all they can do is pop the lid off and look for cracked solder joints, damaged tracks or damaged components and replace them with similar. Its pretty low level/barn door approach.

In the case of this generation ECU you will achieve nothing when you pop the lid off because the whole board is encased in a silicon like gel , the make up of it is nothing like a car or computer board . Believe me I’ve tried many companies to lol at them , no one recognise it . The system was built and designed by Niro Automotive, I also tried to contact them direct to get a repair.
The units are produced as blanks then programmed individual at Volvo to each engine map as a dedicated part number .

 

[petem]

For the avoidance of doubt, this isn't something that keeps me awake at night (far too many other things to worry about) but I thought it would make an interesting thread. Dealing with (far too many) "End of Life" issues at work in IT it made me curious.

As others have said, at close on €3000 a pop, when the time does come there are bound to be some enterprising companies that will offer a solution.

In the case of this generation ECU you will achieve nothing when you pop the lid off because the whole board is encased in a silicon like gel , the make up of it is nothing like a car or computer board . Believe me I’ve tried many companies to lol at them , no one recognise it . The system was built and designed by Niro Automotive, I also tried to contact them direct to get a repair.
The units are produced as blanks then programmed individual at Volvo to each engine map as a dedicated part number .

If the boards are protected from the environment, then that would explain their seemingly decent reliability. Am I correct in thinking that some problems could be related to corroded connectors which I assume would be more repairable?

 

[petem]

Arduino won't work - its not a real time device. You'll be trundling along at 20 knots when it decides to do some housekeeping function in the processor and you'll fall off the plane.

Ben, I'm no expert but I thought Arduino's were designed for controlling machinery, monitoring, etc.

Isn't Vas using Arduino's in his stabs project?