Eastbourne lifeboat tried to assist French yacht for 9 hours

[FinesseChris]

There's always two sides to a story. Perhaps he didn't feel he needed help as he was able to get back on his own? Perhaps the 100m warp was to try to help the motion in the strong winds and waves?

I've told this before but around 15 years ago I was anchored for lunch at the mouth of the crouch rafted against my wife's cousin's boat that sported a long bowsprit. Anyway at the end of the lunch when we cast off I stupidly caught the shrouds in the bowsprit at a coouple of knots and the mast on our 24 foot cruiser racer came straight down. Not to worry, I was with my Son and we pulled everything back onto the coach roof, tied everything neatly and when sure nothing was dragging started the engine and headed back to our mooring a couple of miles away on the Roach. We had an emergency aeriel and as a matter of courtesy, called the coastguard, making clear we didn't need any help but that if they got any calls from other yachts about a dismasted yacht, not to worry. Anyway 5 minutes later and the D class lifeboat from Burnham turned up. Very friendly and even though we told them we were fine they said they had to shadow us back to our mooring. Anyway a couple of days later in the Burnham Chronicle there was a story about how the Burnham lifeboat had saved the lives of 2 souls and rescued us and towed us back in. Ever since then i've taken some of the stories with a pinch of salt.

Yup, we were "saved" after we reported being snagged on a pot cable. Helped, yes –and we were very grateful; "saved" – not so much.

We declined to be featured in an RNLI Press release: the station had a volunteer press officer; very keen.

 

[lustyd]

Maybe there is Just Reason to intervene in a sittuation where a Boat is or can put others into danger due to apparent lack of say Nav Lighting,

So you're suggesting that if I'm on passage and my tricolour bulb blows for whatever reason that the RNLI (who have ZERO juristiction to enforce anything, and hopefully it will remain so) should somehow be entitled to commandeer my yacht?

I've said it many times on this thread - nobody was put in danger by this "incident". A skipper had problems and dealt with them. The RNLI tried to intervene and were turned down, then decided to watch for 9 hours so they could get a story. No ships were harmed, no ships had near misses. The ships continued their normal practice of active watch, which includes looking for things which don't resemble xmas trees such as rocks, unlit boats, unlit buoys, icebergs and shipping containers. They are legally obliged to do so.

 

[jimi]

So you're suggesting that if I'm on passage and my tricolour bulb blows for whatever reason that the RNLI (who have ZERO juristiction to enforce anything, and hopefully it will remain so) should somehow be entitled to commandeer my yacht?

I've said it many times on this thread - nobody was put in danger by this "incident". A skipper had problems and dealt with them. The RNLI tried to intervene and were turned down, then decided to watch for 9 hours so they could get a story. No ships were harmed, no ships had near misses. The ships continued their normal practice of active watch, which includes looking for things which don't resemble xmas trees such as rocks, unlit boats, unlit buoys, icebergs and shipping containers. They are legally obliged to do so.

You seem to know more about this incident than anyone else, were you the skipper?

 

[FlyingGoose]

So you're suggesting that if I'm on passage and my tricolour bulb blows for whatever reason that the RNLI (who have ZERO juristiction to enforce anything, and hopefully it will remain so) should somehow be entitled to commandeer my yacht?

I've said it many times on this thread - nobody was put in danger by this "incident". A skipper had problems and dealt with them. The RNLI tried to intervene and were turned down, then decided to watch for 9 hours so they could get a story. No ships were harmed, no ships had near misses. The ships continued their normal practice of active watch, which includes looking for things which don't resemble xmas trees such as rocks, unlit boats, unlit buoys, icebergs and shipping containers. They are legally obliged to do so.

You seem to have bee in your bonnet,
No they have no jurisdiction, but the coastguard do and if they authorise for what ever reason the RNLI. To stand off , watch or otherwise they I assume will do it,
Also you have an issue with them following or shadowing a vessel , this I presume is a safety issued from HMCc and the lifeboat skipper , in UK waters which the CC has a duty to ensure all round compliance and safety.
We in the uk are some of the luckiest sailors in Regards to sailing and regulations, we are rescued by volunteers who risk their lives every time there is a shout ,mistake or not.
I also find he story of your boat being commandeered as unusual, as if it was my boat and really did not need help a stern but polite no would be suffice.
In regards to press officers and stories , so what this is how they get their message across ,yes the language and situation might be more rainbow to what has happened , but in these hard times charities are fitting for every penny,
Do you scorn the cancer reasch person in the street usually young good looking people trying to get you to sign up , it is all down to strategy and advertisement.
I am sure we can forgive the cancer. Charities and give the RNLI a break , they are only adapting to a different fund raising awareness.
Many lives saved at sea from an institution that is a beacon of hope for all sailors .
Me I am proud to be British and can readily allow myself to forgive little bumps in the-sea that the RNLI might find itself in , as do many large organisations.

 

[Pye_End]

So you're suggesting that if I'm on passage and my tricolour bulb blows for whatever reason that the RNLI (who have ZERO juristiction to enforce anything, and hopefully it will remain so) should somehow be entitled to commandeer my yacht?

Surely you would do the seamanlike answer and either put another light on, or have a spare emergency all round white which runs on batteries down below, or at worst, carry a powerful torch so if anything comes near you would alert them of your presence. What you would not do is run dark. What makes you think there are plenty of boats unlit, especially in shipping areas/channels round the UK? Certainly not my experience.

Quite frankly, I am astounded that people who go to sea can bash the RNLI like this. About as good a service as you can ask for. It is made up of humans from society, so no doubt in some circumstances there are mistakes made, or could do better, but some make it sound as though caring above and beyond for a good outcome is a bad thing, and the whole thing should be disbanded.

 

[Juan Twothree]

The RNLI tried to intervene and were turned down, then decided to watch for 9 hours so they could get a story.

Once a lifeboat has accepted a tasking, it can only return to station when released from the incident by the CG.

Do you honestly believe that the crew would choose to spend the whole night at sea just on the off chance that they might get some publicity from it?

Your comment is totally unjustified.

 

[lustyd]

Surely you would do the seamanlike answer and either put another light on, or have a spare emergency all round white which runs on batteries down below, or at worst, carry a powerful torch so if anything comes near you would alert them of your presence. What you would not do is run dark. What makes you think there are plenty of boats unlit, especially in shipping areas/channels round the UK? Certainly not my experience.

Quite frankly, I am astounded that people who go to sea can bash the RNLI like this. About as good a service as you can ask for. It is made up of humans from society, so no doubt in some circumstances there are mistakes made, or could do better, but some make it sound as though caring above and beyond for a good outcome is a bad thing, and the whole thing should be disbanded.

I would probably put another light on yes, but only if and once time allowed. In this instance that doesn't appear to be the case for the solo skipper in rough seas with various issues on his boat. He appeared to be prioritising.

I'm certainly not "bashing" the RNLI, when needed they do an excellent job. There are plenty of examples on this thread of places where they could learn though. The problem seems to be that anyone raising any kind of issue gets shouted down "because they are heros". That's not a healthy way to build and maintain a good service, especially one with a monopoly position in the market it's in.

 

[lustyd]

You seem to know more about this incident than anyone else, were you the skipper?

I know at least as much as those who are certain the skipper was incompetent, that's for sure.

 

[Tomaret]

I would probably put another light on yes, but only if and once time allowed. In this instance that doesn't appear to be the case for the solo skipper in rough seas with various issues on his boat. He appeared to be prioritising.

I'm certainly not "bashing" the RNLI, when needed they do an excellent job. There are plenty of examples on this thread of places where they could learn though. The problem seems to be that anyone raising any kind of issue gets shouted down "because they are heros". That's not a healthy way to build and maintain a good service, especially one with a monopoly position in the market it's in.

Asserting that the lifeboat stayed out for 9 hours, just to get a story, is hardly a constructive way to debate the service the RNLI provides, so you can hardly complain if responses are framed in similar ways.

 

[jimi]

I know at least as much as those who are certain the skipper was incompetent, that's for sure.

And your evidence showing the competence of the skipper?

 

[NotBirdseye]

Once a lifeboat has accepted a tasking, it can only return to station when released from the incident by the CG.

Do you honestly believe that the crew would choose to spend the whole night at sea just on the off chance that they might get some publicity from it?

Your comment is totally unjustified.

The crew... no... the management... 110% yes. No faith in the RNLI management...

 

[Juan Twothree]

The crew... no... the management... 110% yes. No faith in the RNLI management...

Do you have any direct experience of the RNLI management (as I have), or are you basing your opinion on stories in the press over the last few years?

 

[lustyd]

And your evidence showing the competence of the skipper?

He made it home unassisted. Your evidence he was incompetent?

 

[jimi]

He made it home unassisted. Your evidence he was incompetent?

Hmm. So survival is evidence of competence? Well I never.

I'm thinking that someone on this thread has very little experience of sailing at night. Firstly the assumption that if the tricolour blows then that's all lights gone. Firstly most boats also have bow and stern nav lights plus a steaming light as well as a masthead anchor light. I remember one partic stormy Cherbourg to Solent December night (actually ended up in Poole cos my rudder was playing up and the wind was NE making the Needles too close winded in the F8 gusting 10) putting the anchor light on cos did'nt have a tri and my nav lights were getting too obscured by waves and wave clutter on radar would be attrocious. I radioed the Poole ferry (the big one that used to run to France) approaching my port quarter to check they'd seen me, they replied they'd spotted my anchor light first.

Any competent skipper would have spare battery powered nav lights plus at least one big torch.

I used to do most of my winter channel crossings at night cos it was a lot easier to judge the changing aspect of crossing vessels based on their nav and masthead lights. I recall nearly crashing into an unlit idiot 10 miles south of Portland once, spotted him at the last second about 20 yards away cos of the light coming out his hatchway. Reckon he thought there would be nobody else about.

To say that running dark is OK cos lights would'nt be seen anyway is just plain ignorance, no one who has spent any time night sailing would say that.

Looking at the geography from Le Havre to Cherbourg, there is no way this vessel was crossing the TSS at right angles if he ended up 15 miles of Eastbourne.

 

[lustyd]

No, survival isn't evidence of competence, neither is posting on a forum. Having a bad day at sea is also not evidence of incompetence, I can only assume there is a reason you carry all that extra gear and it's certainly not natural talent, although it might be that you're overly worried by the sea so appologies if you are that mysical sailor who has never had a single problem at sea.
The geography is irrelevant to how a boat with ripped sails will sail. If you can't see how holding a 90 degree heading could lead to erratic course in open sea in poor weather with ripped sails and a broken boom then perhaps you really have had no problems at sea. I've been in a couple of scenarios where maintaining a stable track would have been impossible if unable to change heading. Regardless your statement is nonsense without knowing his location when he started crossing the TSS. Which you clearly don't know, and neither do I. The difference is I didn't assume a fellow sailor having a bad day at sea was incompetent based on a poorly written story lacking any kind of detail.

 

[Pye_End]

Difficult to really understand your complaint. You say that you do not approve of an enforced rescue, and none was made. Nobody - lifeboat crew, skipper, CG, you, me, etc. could have known the outcome at the start of the shout, so why not have a bit of respect for the judgement of those on the scene at the time? Given the circumstances it seems a perfectly sensible decision BY THE CG since they were not allowed a more substantial intervention.

 

[rotrax]

I have only once been rescued. We caught a pot rope around the prop and partly jamming the rudder at 0200 near Roughs Tower off Harwich. We were anchored by the stern in a slight sea. Crew all well over 70, no chance of going over side in the dark with the bread knife.?
We called Thames CG to advise them of our situation and that we would need assistance and a tow. They sent out the Harwich LB. They were unable to cut us free using their Y boat and an enormous wicked looking scythe! The Cox’n then said he would tow us free. This was a smooth process and they brought us in to the Lifeboat berth in Harwich, in the morning the Cox’n came back in a dry suit with a Large knife, jumped in and cut away large amounts of rope, floats and weights. We then tried the engine which was fine. We went back the next week with suitable liquids and a cheque to show our appreciation.
We were not “in danger” but well and truly stuck and in need of assistance and the Cox’n said we did exactly the right thing.

Similar experience off Rathin Island.

Portrush RNLI got us free after five hours.

Big donation and beer for the crew later that week.

 

[jimi]

No, survival isn't evidence of competence, neither is posting on a forum. Having a bad day at sea is also not evidence of incompetence, I can only assume there is a reason you carry all that extra gear and it's certainly not natural talent, although it might be that you're overly worried by the sea so appologies if you are that mysical sailor who has never had a single problem at sea.
The geography is irrelevant to how a boat with ripped sails will sail. If you can't see how holding a 90 degree heading could lead to erratic course in open sea in poor weather with ripped sails and a broken boom then perhaps you really have had no problems at sea. I've been in a couple of scenarios where maintaining a stable track would have been impossible if unable to change heading. Regardless your statement is nonsense without knowing his location when he started crossing the TSS. Which you clearly don't know, and neither do I. The difference is I didn't assume a fellow sailor having a bad day at sea was incompetent based on a poorly written story lacking any kind of detail.

What a load of bollox.

 

[FlyingGoose]

No, survival isn't evidence of competence, neither is posting on a forum. Having a bad day at sea is also not evidence of incompetence, I can only assume there is a reason you carry all that extra gear and it's certainly not natural talent, although it might be that you're overly worried by the sea so appologies if you are that mysical sailor who has never had a single problem at sea.
The geography is irrelevant to how a boat with ripped sails will sail. If you can't see how holding a 90 degree heading could lead to erratic course in open sea in poor weather with ripped sails and a broken boom then perhaps you really have had no problems at sea. I've been in a couple of scenarios where maintaining a stable track would have been impossible if unable to change heading. Regardless your statement is nonsense without knowing his location when he started crossing the TSS. Which you clearly don't know, and neither do I. The difference is I didn't assume a fellow sailor having a bad day at sea was incompetent based on a poorly written story lacking any kind of detail.

All that extra gear is what is found on a coded vessel , and is there to ensure redundancy in systems and safety, as I have already said we are not regulated as leisure vessels , and have an easy time of it in regards to other eu countries and the US ,
Part of this is the RNLI organisation a charity willing to risk lives to those that perhaps choose not to have proper redundancy on there boat. And allow us all the freedoms of our water,
This organisation is a charity, and it amazes me how much negativity is forced upon them just for trying to save lives, it truly is amazing, none of your tax money goes to them so in essence we really have no influence,
Donate if you want do not donate but they will still be there if you find yourself in a real emergency,
I wonder at that time, will you question their motives, argue about their advertisement ,worry were they spend their money , as you are pulled of a sinking vessel.
One needs to ponder that thought for a while

 

[dom]

While I'm sure there is someone on every bridge looking out for nav lights on the horizon, it's unlikely they would see the tiny lights on a yacht with a meaningful time to act. More likely most things in the channel will be using radar for their main lookout at night with visual being secondary.

This is utter nonsense, especially in an era of ultra-bright low-power LED lights. Moreover, a well equipped vessel will have backup navlights AND a decent radar reflector ....that is basic yacht safety