Does size really matter when you’re single handed?

[prv]

Is the finger pontoon style with cleats for making fast so common and wide spread across Europe and other possible destinations that you could safely base your choice of boat size on the presumption of using it?

It's very common in tidal waters, around the UK, the Channel coast of France, Belgium, Ireland, etc. Most of us don't expect to take our UK-based boats further afield than that.

Not everywhere will be finger berths, straight lengths of pontoon are also common especially for visitors' berths, but cleats for making fast are still the norm. The only real exception is some French marinas which mostly use cleats but for some unknown reason have a metal hoop on the outer ends of the fingers instead. Those can be an unpleasant surprise for a first-timer who was expecting to drop a warp over the end cleat that isn't there.

We don't use Baltic-style box berths or Med-style stern-to-quay mooring because the tidal range makes it impractical.

Pete

 

[doug748]

I don’t sail in the areas mentioned by the OP however to my mind the biggest issue even when sailing at 41 foot with 2 is what you find at a marina assuming this is destination in terms of space etc . Hence the solo sailor arriving at Portland has great long pontoons and the looping mid ships line trick is fine but take some French marinas with super short pontoons, no cleats, small width etc and more challenging. So it a case I suspect of careful destination planning, plenty of riggable lines of different colours so helpful shoreside greeters can be instructed easily , booking your berth and even asking the marina to help on arrival...............

I'd agree with that, the bigger the boat the more chancy it is to go off piste. So it does curtail your options to some extent. I like to go into small places, now and again, where you are not really sure what facilities will be available, what room there will be or, indeed, what sort of welcome. With boats at the smaller end of the scale you can normally find some usable spot.

Marinas can be chancy, it's fine taking the boat into your home port but you have to be prepared to go into a dead end led by a sixth former in a rib - unsure of what the helper considers a suitable berth for the boat. So you really need to be able to turn your boat, with confidence, in her own length, or avoid some French (for example) marinas in season.

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[davidaprice]

Where I sail my 33 foot Maxi 999 many harbours are bow to a jetty with a stern buoy. The length and high freeboard means that from the tiller it's hard to see when the bow is just close enough to the jetty, and also in the time it takes to hurry to the bow it has often already blown off. This would probably be less of a problem with a heavier displacement boat; it's also less of a problem with my 'classic-style' 31 foot Hai 2000, since it is so low to the water its windage is much less and it doesn't blow off so easily. (On the other hand, stepping off its long, pointy bow is not for the faint-hearted).

 

[peter gibbs]

Evening all,

what do you think? I intend to do a fair bit of single handed but Mrs B like a bit of space and comfort. I’ve got ambitions for longer passages when I have more time so my question is about boat size. A lot of my sailing friends think anything over 32 would be tricky but I love the idea of a go anywhere boat and have been eeying up nauticat 35-43, moodys, westerly oyster and bavaria oceans. I’ve seen plenty of you tube videos of folk happily sailing 40ft plus boats so what are the pro’s and cons?

A big subject. There are no absolutes - above 40 ft getting about the boat and hauling the sails gets more stretching.

But, as you probably know, it's at close quarters that size really tells. Mooring in a marina /harbour requires foresight and planning, equipment positioned precisely, reliable motor, and autohelm. And practice in dealing with uncertainty, the cool application of plan B. Sometimes the courage to leap off the boat with a single line in the hope of making fast before wind and tide carry you away.

Out at sea there's time to respond and make adjustments - single handed sailing can be a delight, a closeness to the sea and sky that is incomparable. But over the years I've come to value good company highly, not so much for extra hands but to share the same joys with - at sea and on landing.

PWG

 

[ashtead]

The other advantage of a larger boat is of course space for say 4 people-you can manage on say a 34 foot bouncing around on a buoy in Alderney harbour but its marginally more comfortable doing that in 41 foot so everyone has that bit more space. You also get the extra storage for larger items which perhaps while they can fit on 34ft tend not to be comfortable bedfellows with crew. I agree with doug748 though that going into some places worries me even with a crew whereas in a light 34 footer you spin it around even when say in the dead end situation . If you can back the boat easily then you tend to become more inclined to back into unknown situation as plan B is that much easier going out frontwards. I think a lot of this choice does turn on where you plan to do your boating and what you expect on arrival . I’m sure many love going into say Paimpol but I would much prefer to visit a larger location and visit by road . We find it easier to hauling trim sails with electric winches and these help the single handed sailor who can tack reef and generally make passage alone even if you have one other crew asleep below. In that way night crossings are quite good because your crew can sleep and be all refreshed to help on arrival etc.

 

[BabaYaga]

It's very common in tidal waters, around the UK, the Channel coast of France, Belgium, Ireland, etc. Most of us don't expect to take our UK-based boats further afield than that.

We don't use Baltic-style box berths or Med-style stern-to-quay mooring because the tidal range makes it impractical.

Pete

Thanks. I asked as the OP specifically (post #31) mentions the Baltic (and also Med and trans Atlantic). It seems like a good idea, if SH is important, to choose a boat size in which you would be able to handle a large variety of possible berthing arrangements.

As for the Baltic, beside the box style (with two piles for the stern lines) you could encounter for instance the jetty with stern buoy mentioned above, jetty or pontoon with lazy line for the stern, jetty where you use your own stern anchor, quayside or jetty where you go alongside and raft up, "fingers" for only one boat which are un-walkable (with hoops, not cleats)... all in all, great variability. And then there are the natural harbours...

 

[kalanka]

I sail a Sadler 34, usually single-handed. I have never owned another boat and have "progressed" over 10 years from a first, nervous 2-hour solo sail to an Atlantic circuit. I feel that the size of the boat is just right since she has stability, comfort and sea kindliness but is not so big that, if necessary, I cannot handle sails, move her on a pontoon or raise the anchor without mechanical assistance.

All lines come to the cockpit. I have wind vane steering and carry two tiller pilots. I once had a tiller pilot fail before I routinely carried a spare. Pilotage and docking were particularly difficult without.

In my view the key is to develop systems that work for solo operation of your boat. It has been necessary for me to sort out specific solo systems for hoisting a Genoa when unable to feed and hoist at the same time, hoisting the main in a swell to avoid the halyard hooking on the mast steps, fitting the O/B on the tender, getting off a pontoon with adverse tide, wind or both, anchoring and raising the anchor, working at the masthead, reefing, fitting a proximity alarm to warn me of other vessels when below, picking up a mooring, tacking and so on. It is a different and very satisfying game.

Also, try to play to your strengths. As everyone says, docking is difficult so I anchor whenever possible, keep my boat on a swinging mooring and, when necessary, try to go into port in a controlled and defensive manner..... I am happy to request assistance from marina staff or others but this is not always available.

I carry a cruising chute but find I rarely use it - I try to avoid difficult-to-control situations and have had the wind suddenly go from a steady 5kt to 25kt rather too often. I am rarely in such a hurry these days...

 

[Iliade]

One thing I have noticed with the bigger boat (34') is that I often need to use the winches to bring her up to the jetty once the lines are ashore. The 26' er I could pull in against the wind and current. Oh and carrying the sails is a near impossibility - I think the main weighs more than me!

 

[RupertW]

One thing I have noticed with the bigger boat (34') is that I often need to use the winches to bring her up to the jetty once the lines are ashore. The 26' er I could pull in against the wind and current. Oh and carrying the sails is a near impossibility - I think the main weighs more than me!

Now that does surprise me - I have a 42 footer and haven’t yet done that in 10 years. I think it may be because currents are rare where I sail, so I can use the technique of pulling in when there is a wind lull, and holding on whilst it tensions.

 

[Kukri]

My biggish boat is a late Sixties design and whilst I love her to bits you can only get on and off her amidships, or just occasionally over the counter stern. She is beamy - but only at one spot! Luckily the point of maximum beam coincides with a shroud to hang onto, and she doesn’t have much freeboard for her size. It’s therefore a case of having the fenders all deployed and the bow and stern warps and the midships warp all “pre-positioned” clear of the guard rails, because with 26 tons of boat you are only going to get one shot at it.

(Oh, and forget going astern. The prop is eight feet from the rudder!)

 

[Bellinos]

I used to singlehand my previous 50' OD / 65' OA regularly, in fact I commuted with her some 25 miles over open water every other week and lived aboard when in town on business, winter or summer. I did this for over ten years. Each trip involved leaving and returning to a mooring (fore&aft) and several dockings to load and unload and crane on a motorbike, going alongside gas docks etc.. At thirty tons displacement it doesn't matter if you have crew or not to fend off while docking; you just can't push that kind of weight around without serious risk of injury.
The boat was a centre cockpit cutter; all lines lead aft, but she did not have roller reefing. The cockpit had a hard cover enclosure over it that made winter sailing feasible. She was fitted with a lifting keel, twin rudders and engines. I always made a point of sailing, whenever possible.

There are considerable advantages to singlehanding a large vessel. Foremost, it is a much more stable and consequently safer platform to work on, the motion at sea is more steady and predictable and less tiring.

At sea and up to a point, size is irrelevant as the size of the gear is (should be) designed to handle the loads.

The weather is less of a concern; a larger boat is inherently safer.

Once you get the hang of handling a boat, size doesn't really matter all that much in port, in fact you are less likely to be blown all over the place with a larger boat. In all honesty, I have found my present boat that weighs considerably less than a third of my old one much more challenging to dock; at 8.5t, we still do not fend off by hand.
If you have to "manhandle" a boat into a slip or in harbour, you are doing something wrong, IMHO.

Thanks for that. I was thinking that weight whilst creating momentum would also increase stability and would reduce windage at dock. Laminar flow? theatres?

 

[Bellinos]

There is a very pretty nauticat 35 for sale at the moment

Using a midhsips cleat spring line was a revelation to me, I can park my Colvic Watson 34 singlehanded with no problems, bowthruster helps even if only knowing it's there and available if needed. If you went for something like a Nauticat and use marinas regularly a bowthruster will take a lot of the stress away...

 

[Concerto]

In my earlier post (#21) I forgot to mention a very good book that many of you could learn some tips from, especially how to moor to French finger pontoons..
Stress Free Sailing - single and short handed techniques by Duncan Wells.
Stress Free Sailing | Westview Sailing

I regularly turn up in different ports, many I have never visited before, so it is very wise to have plenty of fenders ready. I normally rig 4 hanging sausage and 2 ball fender on the side I expect to lay alongside and 3 sausage fenders on the other side for protection if slipping into a marina berth alongside another boat. I normally rig one mooring line that is 3 times the length of the boat. Each end is fixed at the bow and stern, and the middle of the line is cleated just forward of the mid ship cleat. So you have two long loops of warp, each becomes a spring and breast rope when used on a cleat. On one occassion I used the aft line as a brake in a long lock as the wind funnelled and caught me out and reverse would have kicked the stern away from the pontoon. I always keep a spare warp in the cockpit for an emergency along with a boat hook hanging on the sprayhood grab rail.

 

[geem]

My biggish boat is a late Sixties design and whilst I love her to bits you can only get on and off her amidships, or just occasionally over the counter stern. She is beamy - but only at one spot! Luckily the point of maximum beam coincides with a shroud to hang onto, and she doesn’t have much freeboard for her size. It’s therefore a case of having the fenders all deployed and the bow and stern warps and the midships warp all “pre-positioned” clear of the guard rails, because with 26 tons of boat you are only going to get one shot at it.

(Oh, and forget going astern. The prop is eight feet from the rudder!)

We have a similar issue. A late 70s design. Unusually though we are high freeboard with a flush deck. Getting off her as we approach a marina berth needs the fender step hanging over the side so the Mrs can be stood on it as I approach. We normally try and get the midships line on first. Doing it single handed in an 18 ton boat aint going to happen. With the two of us we rarely have a problem but we have asked for a hammerhead when the condition are poor or the marina berths are too small.
The 22” prop has huge prop walk that can also make stopping look like a handbrake turn?

 

[Koeketiene]

It's not the sailing that's the problem. Coming alongside or picking up a buoy single handed is the trick, especially if like many modern yachts you have high freeboard.

This has been my experience too.
Previous boat was a Kalik 44. Sailing solo was not a problem though I rarely sailed solo as coming alongside was never easy and you can not always rely on bystanders to take your lines.
Also, due to the high freeboard and the distance from the helm to the bow, picking up a mooring singlehanded was virtually impossible.
So I almost always sailed with crew.

Current boat is 36'.
I now sail singlehanded 90% of the time.
I now sail (a lot) more and I have gone from fearing singlehanded sailing to enjoying and even prefering it.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Thanks for that. I was thinking that weight whilst creating momentum would also increase stability and would reduce windage at dock. Laminar flow? theatres?

I cruised the above boat throughout Europe including the Baltic, North Sea, French canals, Mediterranean, Atlantic, Caribbean, Central and South America and the Pacific Northwest.

When cruising you are confronted with many different and changing conditions.

Know your boat, think ahead, have the fenders out, the lines ready.

I agree with those who say that the centre line is key. Have a decent gate to get off the boat.

Having to jump, rush, panic, frantically push off, is a docking fail, pure and simple.

Our present boat weighs 8.5t. While we sail two up these days, there is no way my wife could "push her off" and she is absolutely forbidden to try. If we "hit", we hit.
I have installed a centre cleat - get just that line ashore and tied off and you're safe.

We travel by boat to see places. With our current edition that is Northern Europe, Baltic, Holland, South Coast, Normandy and Brittany to date; I cannot imagine not going into a place because I was afraid to dock or maneuver there and to be sure, the maneuverability of our present boat requires an insouciance best honed at a demolition derby. We sport all the agility a long keel and the windage and lateral projection of an aircraft carrier; we do not have a bow thruster either.
I'm not sure why Paimpol would be singled out as a difficult spot, it is sheltered, there is no current and compared to some of the Baltic or Dutch harbours the layout is outstandingly generous.

 

[dansaskip]

but Mrs B like a bit of space and comfort. I’ve got ambitions for longer passages when I have more time so my question is about boat size. A lot of my sailing friends think anything over 32 would be tricky but I love the idea of a go anywhere boat

I appreciate the wanting space and comfort but a go anywhere boat does not have to be big. There are plenty of folks who have gone anywhere in boats in 26- 30 foot size range.

 

[geem]

Deleted

 

[geem]

A guy I know has just finished a circumnavigation in a 28 footer. He says his next boat will be bigger. He was looking at a 34/36 footer

 

[dansaskip]

A guy I know has just finished a circumnavigation in a 28 footer. He says his next boat will be bigger. He was looking at a 34/36 footer

Was that Thom?
I went half way around in mine.