Yurkey & Discharges

[CharlesSwallow]

Turkey & Discharges

I hope that I'm not contravening CA copyright but this was passed to me by a friend this afternoon. It is the result of a very recent meeting at the LIBS, or so I understand

Environmental Regulations for Yachts in Turkey


The object of the schemes explained below are to protect the biological diversity and environment by
the prevention of pollution by vessels regardless of name, purpose, tonnage and means of propulsion
other than a rowing boat propelled by oars.
There are two issues of immediate concern to yachts sailing in Turkish Waters:


• Blue Card Scheme


o This scheme is intended for the prohibition of marine pollution and the Mugla district is
a pilot area. All black water and grey water waste must not be discharged into the sea,
but must be pumped out at a designated pumping station.


o All ships, including yachts will be required to carry a Blue Card, obtainable from marinas
or from harbour master’s offices, on arrival or before sailing. The cost of the Blue Card,
which is a smart card recording boat and crew details, will be 75 TL. The card will be a
record of a vessels discharge of black/grey water waste.


o This initially covers the area from Bodrum to Fethiye (Mugla district), including Gocek
bay



• Special Environment Protection Zone


o This covers Gocek bay and Skopea Limani and imposses restriction on usage within that
area


o Restriction on the number of vessels in the area has been proposed but the precise
number is not known, and how it would be controlled.


o All vessels within this area must moor at an approved mooring – yacht harbour, jetty,
buoys, bollards etc. No anchoring will be permitted.


o The limit of how long you can remain moored will be 11 days


o Cooking on deck and ashore is prohibited.



• PUMP OUT STATIONS


o Some stations are operational, but many of them are not yet. It is planned that there
will be 30 stations . Organisations responsible are listed on the Turkish Marine
Environment Protection Association (Turmepa) web site.



• CONTROLS & FINES
o The Turkish Coast Guard & Muğla District Governor Office boats are authorised to
inspect the electronic Blue Cards. Details are not yet available. However ships will be
expected to discharge waste water to the stations regularly, and volumes assessed per
person on board per day.
These schemes are scheduled to come into effect from March 2010. However, there are obviously many
questions about how the scheme will operate, and who will be implementing it. For example: the
majority of yachts will not have facilities for collecting grey water waste so would be unable to comply
with the regulations.
However, the Turkish Tourism Ministry does not support the regulations although they have not
officially objected yet; the Turkish Chamber of Shipping - Fethiye Branch – has begun a court case to
cancel the regulations; the Marine Affairs Ministry who control the Harbour Masters have some
objections ; and the Turkish Coast Guard Commandant has not received a direct order from the ministry
yet, but the Mugla Governor can ask the Coast Guard in the Mugla district to inspect the Blue Cards.
The current position is that the implementation of the Blue Card Scheme is raising many issues to which
nobody seems able to give definitive answers. The advice from the Turks is to continue sailing in Turkey
and they will endeavour to have more information before the start of the sailing season.




Don't hang the messenger!

Chas

 

[Marsupial]

Thanks for that Chas, its about what we know here in Fethiye, it looks like it will go ahead in some shape or form. A walk down the town quay confirms that they are currently fettling a fast patrol boat to police this mess (in this area?); its easily identified it has TURMEPA on the side in big letters and a huge outboard on the transom. As to mooring to bollards you still need an anchor or a lazy line.

Its all very well for the Turks to say come and sail as usual but they wont be ones paying the fines for not producing enough waste on the blue card.

 

[alig99]

CS, this looks like a direct crib of the handout given at the talk by the Turkish stand at the boat show on Monday 11th Jan 10 at 5pm and the speaker who produced these was more than happy for forums to have such info, they advised that the handout information would be available from the Cruising Association and the RYA. At the talk there was a representative from the Turkish Tourist Board to witness the concerns raised by boat owners in particular the issues over the grey water tankage and the impractical application of the rules. Speaker advised at currently the area affected under Mula rule was a pilot and that talks would be on going to resolve the issues and concerns. At the talk Turkey Tourist Board was urged by boat owners to come to a concise and clear directive by March! LOL

 

[TQA]

Pliz where is this Yurkey?

 

[sunshinesailing]

Turkey and discharges

We spent many enjoyable evenings and nights swinging on our hook in Gocek, Fethiye and Skopea Limani. The marinas were usually full, but to us marinas are not cruising. After a day ashore shopping and sightseeing it was great to light the barbecue cook, up some fresh fish from the market and watch the sun go down. According to this directive those times are finished. I can understand the need to protect the environment and I can understand the rationale of issuing blue cards to generate the revenue to fund the environmental protection. Using your anchor and barbecue has nothing to do with environmental protection. The Turkish authorities are taking a step to far. I support all those who are actively opposing the blue card scheme and trying to get a more workable solution in place.
We left Turkey last season after having a tremendous time over a few years. Upon leaving we had to deal with the unpleasant officials enforcing the new exit and entry procedures, this left a bad taste in our mouths for a country that was otherwise wonderful. So we spent the season in Greece and enjoyed it thoroughly, lots of anchoring, no marinas, plenty of barbecues and predictable and reasonably priced entry procedures, sort of like Turkey used to be. Things move on and we are happy to have enjoyed Turkey. There may be bluer waters just over the horizon from Turkey.

 

[Squeaky]

Good morning:

Don't know where you guys were recently but this subject has been extensively covered over the past few months on this forum.

As mentioned in a post several days ago, we were advised at a Tea & Talk at Netsel Marina in Marmaris that this regulation was unlikely to be enforced in 2010.

Please see http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225156 and earlier posts.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[BobnLesley]

Mugla Province Black/Grey Water Regs.

'...this regulation was unlikely to be enforced in 2010...'

We're getting the same feed-back in Yacht-Marine too. My only caveat would be that if/when it does go forward, then the Gocek/Fethiye Gulf is certain to be the area where they are first/most actively policed, as that's where the greatest density of yachts are to be found and where it seems that the current regs are most rigourously, though correctly and fairly enforced.

We witnessed two yachts being *******ed/fined this past summer, both for pumping out their black-water tanks; the first was mid-morning in the entrance to Tomb Bay as he was leaving the anchorage and the second was sat on anchor just off Gocek Town at about 16:30 on an August afternoon. We met/spoke to the Skipper of the second one later that evening, but not for too long, as he took umbrage and left the bar upon discovering that nobody had much/any sympathy for him!

 

[Marsupial]

'...this regulation was unlikely to be enforced in 2010...'

We're getting the same feed-back in Yacht-Marine too. My only caveat would be that if/when it does go forward, then the Gocek/Fethiye Gulf is certain to be the area where they are first/most actively policed, as that's where the greatest density of yachts are to be found and where it seems that the current regs are most rigourously, though correctly and fairly enforced.

We witnessed two yachts being *******ed/fined this past summer, both for pumping out their black-water tanks; the first was mid-morning in the entrance to Tomb Bay as he was leaving the anchorage and the second was sat on anchor just off Gocek Town at about 16:30 on an August afternoon. We met/spoke to the Skipper of the second one later that evening, but not for too long, as he took umbrage and left the bar upon discovering that nobody had much/any sympathy for him!

Yes there is a power struggle going on, the marinas are, understandably, trying to protect their interests by playing it down, charter firms are playing it down but it wont affect them, just the skipper who charters. The enforcers are out to collect fines for the smallest transgressions. There could be a court case to repeal the regs but this is by no means certain and even if there is, the outcome is not assured because the regulations HAVE BEEN enshrined in Turkish law. Its a mess, I am sure it will be sorted out but not for a season or two. Lets hope some common sense prevails.

 

[Chris_Robb]

'
We witnessed two yachts being *******ed/fined this past summer, both for pumping out their black-water tanks; the first was mid-morning in the entrance to Tomb Bay as he was leaving the anchorage and the second was sat on anchor just off Gocek Town at about 16:30 on an August afternoon. We met/spoke to the Skipper of the second one later that evening, but not for too long, as he took umbrage and left the bar upon discovering that nobody had much/any sympathy for him!

I think that the skippers of boats deliberately pumping out where thet shouldn't, should have their boats conviscated. A fine does not appear enough.

We were hoping to get there in a couple of years time, so perhaps we have missed out on Turkey. Even if they do not enforce the ban on pumping, then the following 2 items may well be enforced as they do not require the same infrastructure.

o Restriction on the number of vessels in the area has been proposed but the precise number is not known, and how it would be controlled.

o All vessels within this area must moor at an approved mooring – yacht harbour, jetty, buoys, bollards etc. No anchoring will be permitted.

And if these numbers are going to be restricted heavily, then Greece will become over crowded - perhaps I should have retired 10 years ago!

 

[xtiffer]

I think that the skippers of boats deliberately pumping out where thet shouldn't, should have their boats conviscated. A fine does not appear enough.

We were hoping to get there in a couple of years time, so perhaps we have missed out on Turkey. Even if they do not enforce the ban on pumping, then the following 2 items may well be enforced as they do not require the same infrastructure.

o Restriction on the number of vessels in the area has been proposed but the precise number is not known, and how it would be controlled.

o All vessels within this area must moor at an approved mooring – yacht harbour, jetty, buoys, bollards etc. No anchoring will be permitted.

And if these numbers are going to be restricted heavily, then Greece will become over crowded - perhaps I should have retired 10 years ago!

Don't panic, this is a small area and NOT the whole Turkish coast.
Plenty of room for you still.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[syfuga]

Scope of Blue Card and Gocek regulations

Hi

The area affected by the Blue card proposal is the whole of the Mugla provincial coastline, from north of Bodrum to Kalkan south of Fethiye. This is not just a small area, but Turkey's prime cruising grounds, over 300 miles of coastline!

As a previous poster has pointed out, there are those in denial ("It won't actually happen"), those who are trying to play it down, and some who, taking the threat seriously, are pushing for clarification and hopefully modification of the proposals.

Following the presentation at the LIBS by Hasan Kaçmaz, the CA are writing to various Turkish government bodies to urge them to re-think the proposals. Let's hope that these initiatives are successful.

Reason enough for you all to join the CA?

I will be keeping up the latest information on our own blog/web site, under the following link:

www.syfuga.co.uk/turkey_notes.htm

 

[xtiffer]

I was referring to the Goçek area anchoring restrictions not the Blue Card scheme.
Sorry, I thought that the quote I was responding to made that plain.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[Chris_Robb]

Don't panic, this is a small area and NOT the whole Turkish coast.
Plenty of room for you still.
Cheers,
Chris

It would look like the anchor restictions applie to the whole of the area not just Gocek, see Syfugas post

Hi

The area affected by the Blue card proposal is the whole of the Mugla provincial coastline, from north of Bodrum to Kalkan south of Fethiye. This is not just a small area, but Turkey's prime cruising grounds, over 300 miles of coastline!

As a previous poster has pointed out, there are those in denial ("It won't actually happen"), those who are trying to play it down, and some who, taking the threat seriously, are pushing for clarification and hopefully modification of the proposals.

Following the presentation at the LIBS by Hasan Kaçmaz, the CA are writing to various Turkish government bodies to urge them to re-think the proposals. Let's hope that these initiatives are successful.

Reason enough for you all to join the CA?

I will be keeping up the latest information on our own blog/web site, under the following link:

www.syfuga.co.uk/turkey_notes.htm

I had heard that many of the anchorages already had mooring bouys in, so enabling them to enforce the "no achoring" policy from day one. If their plan is to reduce the boats by restricting legal availability, then their plan will work!

Next will come the restriction on pumping out (which are just plain impcaticable at this point), they may be delayed a year or so, but in the mean time they will have solved their problems by quartering the boat population. What will the taverna owners think of that!

 

[Marsupial]

It would look like the anchor restictions applie to the whole of the area not just Gocek, see Syfugas post



I had heard that many of the anchorages already had mooring bouys in, so enabling them to enforce the "no achoring" policy from day one. If their plan is to reduce the boats by restricting legal availability, then their plan will work!

Next will come the restriction on pumping out (which are just plain impcaticable at this point), they may be delayed a year or so, but in the mean time they will have solved their problems by quartering the boat population. What will the taverna owners think of that!

The "rules" such as they are apply to the whole coastline of Mugla. I have no info on buoys but there are pumpout stations and two pumpout boats, thses magnificent craft managed to remove waste from 5 boats last season! The full impact to exports is just being realised by the Ministry of Tourism they are not happy (but they did nt make these rules). There are plenty of examples here of statute being created in haste and repealed at leisure, in general they dont appear to be very good at predicting the effects of their rules and end up backtracking and making things absurdly complicated. People high up in the administration are, at this time, unable or unwilling to appreciate the problems jotties face in complying with the rules and can see nothing wrong with them. One of the problems is that there was a study done in 2006 which "proved beyond all doubt" that ALL the pollution in scapia limani was comming from yachts, not the two rivers that feed untreated into the bay.

As I have said before it will take a season or two before the situation "gels" - it will - wait and see.

 

[xtiffer]

It would look like the anchor restictions applie to the whole of the area not just Gocek, see Syfugas post

Try looking at OP:

" Special Environment Protection Zone


o This covers Gocek bay and Skopea Limani and imposses restriction on usage within that
area


o Restriction on the number of vessels in the area has been proposed but the precise
number is not known, and how it would be controlled.


o All vessels within this area must moor at an approved mooring – yacht harbour, jetty,
buoys, bollards etc. No anchoring will be permitted."


No anchoring rule does not apply to the whole of Mugla Province.
Blue Card scheme for grey water tanks etc. does apply to it all.
Of course the reality of what will happen remains to be seen.
I personally suspect that commercial reality will win the day ahead of "green" idealism.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[Chris_Robb]

Try looking at OP:

" Special Environment Protection Zone


o This covers Gocek bay and Skopea Limani and imposses restriction on usage within that
area


o Restriction on the number of vessels in the area has been proposed but the precise
number is not known, and how it would be controlled.


o All vessels within this area must moor at an approved mooring – yacht harbour, jetty,
buoys, bollards etc. No anchoring will be permitted."


No anchoring rule does not apply to the whole of Mugla Province.
Blue Card scheme for grey water tanks etc. does apply to it all.
Of course the reality of what will happen remains to be seen.
I personally suspect that commercial reality will win the day ahead of "green" idealism.
Cheers,
Chris

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Skip13]

Instead of this Vendetta against Yachting Tourism

I Foresee Turkish Authorities "Killing of the Goose that Laid the Golden Egg"
Are they aware of just how much money is generated by Visiting and resident yachtsmen? Is there some kind of macabre vendetta against yachtsmen and yachting!
Tourism Turkey would face a Sad Dilemma if there was a mass exodus of yachts from their shores from their marinas?
What of the 2000.s or more of small Turkish Fishing boats where do Turkish Authoritarians think they dispose of their Waste? Try sitting on side and doing it straight into the Sea! No Holding tanks on these boats?
Pollution is not just a problem of polluting the "Sea's" Wake up Turkey!
Try following Jeep Safaris see the **** they strew throughout the routes they take tourists on! inside the Forest's and the roadsides! See the Garbage they leave on there way through your Forests!
Holiday makers"Turkish" that come in their droves by Cars Picnicking setting up base Camps in Bays! from one end of Coastal waters to the Other! whole families and after spending a Day on the beaches leave! and how they leave! Leaving behind all their "Cop" To go where? First winds First Rains into the Sea's streams or rivers! Just check the beaches where do Authorities think all this garbage comes from! In Fact where do Turkish Authorities think they go to use a Toilet? Families all day sitting on a Beach?
Garbage that is collecting on all Turkeys wonderful beaches? Even beaches that can not be got to from roads! Now small fisher boats bring Families to out of the way beaches! Where do they do their Business? On the beach in the woods ok! if there is Rain but in summer this turns beaches into evil smelling places is this acceptable?
How about implementing the same Fines against Polluters of the Coast and Forestry? and Beaches? Why is this law implemented against just yachtsmen?
Is there a Bias against Yachtsmen?
Try a 35.000YTL for illegal dumping of garbage? To all who break the law!
Oh! no laws against Pollution outside of the Sea Well Turkey pass one!It appears you can pass laws concerning the Sea over night!
Its two way Traffic!
I reported to Jandama an area being used to illegally Dump! Jandama Officer told me what can we do? There are no laws about this?
I told him this is totally unacceptable!
Fethyie "Wall Bay" Or better still re-name it "Dump Bay"? and you think this garbage accumulated or dumped by yachtsmen "Think Again" Try Locals?
Pollution of land of our Seas of our Forests is a Crime! make it Punishable for all!
DO NOT PERSECUTE THE YACHTSMAN! Anyone who Pollutes.
That goes for Turkish boats and Tourists boats.
If Turkey wishes to stop pollution! Maybe they should Start with their lands first! Implement Pump out stations from one end of Turkish Coast to the Other, Then implement the Laws, Not the other way round You do not put the "Horse before the Cart" Infer structure or Floating Pump out stations based up and down the coast and not just for Yachtsmen but all sea users, One very upset Yachtsman who came here in 1979 and all but started Tourism to Turkey a founder Member of the Marmaris yacht Club Skip

 

[mikehibb]

Evening All,

I am off to Turkey next week for 10 days or so.
Will be in Yalikavak (North West Bodrum Peninsula)
So will check up on the views there from the Marina etc.

Hopefully will be able to report back soon if my Turkish Dongle works.

 

[Oliveoyl]

Hi Skip 13, and welcome!
Your post about non yottie tourist pollution is close to my heart. 30 years ago, I used to go climbing in the calanques, just E of Marseille. Very remote at that time, and the (rare) vistors were "responsible" about their waste. Went back 8 years ago, tripper boats brought hoards of Sunday afternoon picnickers, with no facilities for "business". Result was that the whole calanque d'en Vau stank, and under every rock there was a turd or a tampon. Compare and contrast wih US national campgrounds, where compost loos are installed and maintained.

 

[jimbaerselman]

CA Negotiations

Correct John, CA are negotiating on our behalf with the authorities. It'll take time to hear any results though - goverments and ministries are slow to respond.

An important point raised is that MARPOL regulations allow large vessels to discharge sewage when more than 12nm from the coast, and this option appears not to have been considered in framing the proposed rules.