Your thoughts please

OceanSprint said:
Nope. You bare all the responsibilities of "the client" in the regs. You are involved in the work, as you own the vessel the work is being done on, which is the place of work, and you are paying the diveing contractor.

But it is up to each individual how you want to deal with this. Denial and / or ignoring it is one way, I guess.
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I would be interested to see just what "regs" you refer to and where they say a customer bears any responsibility for work carried out by a contractor. As far as I'm aware, if this a legal operation (you're paying a commercially qualified diver) it's no different to a painting contractor falling off his ladder when painting your house. Do you have a link to these regs?
 
GrahamM376 said:
I would be interested to see just what "regs" you refer to and where they say a customer bears any responsibility for work carried out by a contractor. As far as I'm aware, if this a legal operation (you're paying a commercially qualified diver) it's no different to a painting contractor falling off his ladder when painting your house. Do you have a link to these regs?
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I would suggest anyone thinking of paying for dive work looks at the HSE website, especiallythe FAQ page

http://www.hse.gov.uk/diving/faqs.htm

Look at the fourth question down - "if I hire a diving contractor etc...."

Also look at the "approved code of practice - inland\inshore"


http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l104.htm

Free to download.

But as I said, it is up to you what you do.
 
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Laws are laws but it is madness that a qualified recreational diver can dive to 30m or 40m plus , then penetrate a shipwreck on the seabed just as a pass time but to clean a hull or replace anodes etc on a small yacht in 1m / 2m of water requires a surface team and all the nonsense that comes with it !
 
I dive and have my own kit but find it's not worth the effort of cleaning the boat in the water even without the added hassle of HASAWA etc. I can't see how it could be a viable as a business unless you have some sort of innovative cleaning device.
 
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Quiddle said:
I dive and have my own kit but find it's not worth the effort of cleaning the boat in the water even without the added hassle of HASAWA etc. I can't see how it could be a viable as a business unless you have some sort of innovative cleaning device.
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I'm afraid I disagree. People say this about various ideas but I do some of this now within a small circle and I am just feeling the water on taking it further so if anything it will be red tape the puts the mockers on it.

Cheers.
 
Robo72 said:
Laws are laws but it is madness that a qualified recreational diver can dive to 30m or 40m plus , then penetrate a shipwreck on the seabed just as a pass time but to clean a hull or replace anodes etc on a small yacht in 1m / 2m of water requires a surface team and all the nonsense that comes with it !
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You think UK Laws are madness? Try diving out here.

Where our mooring is I would have to have a license from the maritime police just to dive but, if I did manage to get one which is doubtful, I wouldn't be allowed to carry out any work on my own boat because I'm not commercially qualified.

I acted as safety diver for a commercial diver working on a friend's boat (not to have a safety diver would have entailed police being present for the duration of the dive) but, although they (the police) knew of my presence, I wasn't allowed to kit up and enter the water because I'm not commercially qualified!!!!

Because I'm moored next to the police boat, I have to be very careful they're not around whenever I'm checking the mooring.
 
GrahamM376 said:
You think UK Laws are madness? Try diving out here.

Where our mooring is I would have to have a license from the maritime police just to dive but, if I did manage to get one which is doubtful, I wouldn't be allowed to carry out any work on my own boat because I'm not commercially qualified.

I acted as safety diver for a commercial diver working on a friend's boat (not to have a safety diver would have entailed police being present for the duration of the dive) but, although they (the police) knew of my presence, I wasn't allowed to kit up and enter the water because I'm not commercially qualified!!!!

Because I'm moored next to the police boat, I have to be very careful they're not around whenever I'm checking the mooring.
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Hi Graham,
That sounds like madness but what can you do. You can be top of your field in cave diving exploration and it wouldn't make any difference.
Red tape ahh !!!!
 
I cruise the Eastern seaboard of the USA down to Trinidad. There are lots of people offering this service. I see quite a few of the well established people using hookah rigs, some with little engines some with 12 volt motors.

Even in the Caribbean where the water is warm and clear boat owners are happy to pay to have their hull cleaned.

Being a tight Scots pensioner I do my own using a 8 inch scraper on an 8 foot pole. With snorkel gear I can do my bottom in less than an hour without having to dive, just working from the surface.

I do know some one who does it commercially working in some of the marinas where the viz will be nil. Rather him than me.
 
TQA said:
I cruise the Eastern seaboard of the USA down to Trinidad. There are lots of people offering this service. I see quite a few of the well established people using hookah rigs, some with little engines some with 12 volt motors.

Even in the Caribbean where the water is warm and clear boat owners are happy to pay to have their hull cleaned.

Being a tight Scots pensioner I do my own using a 8 inch scraper on an 8 foot pole. With snorkel gear I can do my bottom in less than an hour without having to dive, just working from the surface.

I do know some one who does it commercially working in some of the marinas where the viz will be nil. Rather him than me.
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Perhaps I should relocate to the sunny Caribbean then and get a piece of the action.
It is true what they say about the scots then !
 
Good look with your venture, cleaning bottoms, changing anodes and checking props should make a reasonable income.
With Gopro's being so good even in low light situations you can offer video proof of before and after :)
 
Drews said:
Good look with your venture, cleaning bottoms, changing anodes and checking props should make a reasonable income.
With Gopro's being so good even in low light situations you can offer video proof of before and after :)
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Cheers man , appreciate it.
 
Assuming the H&S is all OK, I'd be interested in such a service; I've just coppercoated the hull, and I hope/expect that it will just need a scrub once a year. If that could be done in the water at less cost than a lift and hold with the marina crane, then I'd be interested. Changing anodes would be the other thing that needed doing.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Assuming the H&S is all OK, I'd be interested in such a service; I've just coppercoated the hull, and I hope/expect that it will just need a scrub once a year. If that could be done in the water at less cost than a lift and hold with the marina crane, then I'd be interested. Changing anodes would be the other thing that needed doing.
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Thanks for that. As I have said before it really would be beneficial to yourselves so I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again.
 
I think you will find that the minimum team size under the Diving at Work regs 1997 and the inshore Acop require a minimum of a 4 man team consisting of a Dive Supervisor, Working diver, standby diver and diver tender. The stand by diver must be fully dressed in with his hat ready to put on all such diving should be on SSDE (surface supplied demand equipment) Scuba is not allowed, You can get away with a 3 man team and scuba if you are diving in a swimming pool ie a benign environment. The regs are about to change and it has been mooyed that the minimum team size will be 5 because if you have only a 4 man team and you have to jump the stand by diver there is no one to tend him as the supervisor cannot leave the panel. Just recently a dive supervisor was fined £15k for not having the stand by fully dressed in. The client does have a responsibility if he employs a diving contractor. If you employ a couple of blokes on scuba for money then you are breaking the law.
I doubt that diving in a marina would be considered a benign environment. The cost of a 4 man team these days is between £1000 to £1100 so too expensive to clean hulls! Also if diving in the likes of Haslar or Gosport marinas QHM must be informed and if diving in the Harbour a dive permit is required from QHM like wise in Southampton water VTS needs to be informed and possibly a permit required and definitely when in the docks VTS wont let you dive commercially in the docks unless its under the 1997 regs.

John
 
The laws the law but what a load of nonsense ( not the comment ) to do something easy as that.
I would be embarrassed to turn up with a four man team to carry a task like I was mentioning.
 
Robo72 said:
The laws the law but what a load of nonsense ( not the comment ) to do something easy as that.
I would be embarrassed to turn up with a four man team to carry a task like I was mentioning.
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I'm embarrassed too when some one wants something they have dropped over the side to have the conversation, but we couldn't take the chance as the last thing we need is a visit from the diving inspectorate (HSE).
 
Robo72 said:
The laws the law but what a load of nonsense ( not the comment ) to do something easy as that.
I would be embarrassed to turn up with a four man team to carry a task like I was mentioning.
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Maybe it is the law but, whenever I've seen a diver doing simple jobs to boats in marinas, in several countries, it's always been one guy working alone and he's often been called in by marina staff. Anyone ever had a "team" turn up to clear their prop?
 
Robo72

I'm not trying to be negative BTW as this something we have never done so its certainly worth speaking to the HSE about as they may give you a relaxation probably with conditions! The Dutch regs allow for a 3 man team but that only applies to Dutch waters if a Dutch company works here in the UK they have to comply with our regs. We do work abroad mainly on Salvage and we always work under the UK regs as they are usually better than local regs and our lads wouldn't work any other way even the Yanks like our regs! I think even with a relaxation you might still have issues with harbourmasters.

John
 
How do you propose to collect the residue?
A lot of marinas have to collect the dross from jet washing operations & dispose of it as contaminated waste.
Our club has to call our posts leaning posts not scrubbing posts to avoid HSE clashes
In the river Blackwater you cannot see past the end of your nose in the water so you would not be able to work in some areas
Some owners allow a massive weed build up & it would be really hard to successfully clean off the weed from some boats
 
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