Your ideal 36-40ft Transat/Circumnav Boat..

[shaunksb]

Similar to this ? http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=415104

IMHO that would be exactly the tool for an Atlanic Circuit. Even down to its age and price. If I were able to buy a new big oyster (which I'm not) I don't know if I could bear to face up to the depreciation after giving it a liveaboard life for a period of time.

Just a bit bigger though if I was going all the way round...


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[RupertW]

I think if you look at the polar diagrams for the Lagoon 380 you will see that these performance figures are simply not true

I think if you actually sail one fully loaded with fuel and water for 4 blokes across the Atlantic you'll find they are.

 

[geem]

I think if you actually sail one fully loaded with fuel and water for 4 blokes across the Atlantic you'll find they are.

I think if you actually sailed in company with one in the Caribbean also fully loaded you would realise they are definitely not. They are slower on all points of sail other than down wind than my 44 ft mono. Downwind they do perform. Overloaded on every other point of sail they are slow and don't point. Over loading a cat never works. I say this from the perspective of somebody who has owned cats for 15 years and sailed twice the across the Atlantic. Going downwind give me a cat every time. Up wind on a Lagoon? Give me a good mono every time

 

[bedouin]

I think if you actually sailed in company with one in the Caribbean also fully loaded you would realise they are definitely not. They are slower on all points of sail other than down wind than my 44 ft mono. Downwind they do perform. Overloaded on every other point of sail they are slow and don't point. Over loading a cat never works. I say this from the perspective of somebody who has owned cats for 15 years and sailed twice the across the Atlantic. Going downwind give me a cat every time. Up wind on a Lagoon? Give me a good mono every time

I saw a group of 45' cats doing pretty well going up wind around the solent last saturday - but not sure they had the accommodation for a transat

 

[geem]

I saw a group of 45' cats doing pretty well going up wind around the solent last saturday - but not sure they had the accommodation for a transat

Yes. I liked those to. Have you seen the Gun Boat G40. That one has accommodation as well. Had a good look at the one that flipped off St Barts. They had a Tohatsu outboard strapped to the swim ladder as the Diesel engine got trashed in the accident. It looks
I've a great toy but wouldn't fancy coring an ocean in it

 

[bedouin]

Yes. I liked those to. Have you seen the Gun Boat G40. That one has accommodation as well. Had a good look at the one that flipped off St Barts. They had a Tohatsu outboard strapped to the swim ladder as the Diesel engine got trashed in the accident. It looks
I've a great toy but wouldn't fancy coring an ocean in it

Amazing boat, but accommodation is perhaps a bit limited for a 40 footer, and certainly contradicts those who say you can't capsize a cat. I would love to have a go on one but perhaps a bit too exciting for every day cruising.

 

[GHA]

Something hefty and low tech. Perhaps a Bruce Roberts that was a bit rusty looking and said penniless boat tramp rather than shiny and new that looks like you are begging to be rolled over if you are planning on sailing past Somalia. With a watermaker that doesn't involve a computer, a Blake's bog and a bit of a workshop area with a decent vice.

I'm oh so close . Watermaker is a bucket under the gooseneck with a reef in the main. Baby blakes yet to get clogged. Just need to get round to mounting the vice somewhere...
People often get confused and bring sailing into it all, minor part...

 

[E39mad]

The Vancouver 36 or 38 is a good alternative to a Bowman 40 as the internal volume only marginally smaller.

Encapsulated long fin gives good directional stability and its designed as a cutter.

Not many built though

 

[KellysEye]

Bowman, Rival and Contessa are all good proven sea boats. We had a Dutch built heavy displacement, long keel with cutaway forefoot steel ketch. This was on the premise that if you sail for long enough you will hit something or something will hit you. We got hit twice once by the bows when we were at anchor but have no idea by what, we were off the boat. We were also at anchor off Dominica when a heavy pirogue approached fast at 90 degrees to our beam and couldn't get it out of gear. The result was chipped paint which I repainted, it would have punched a hole in GRP boat. Most boat boys in the Caribbean approach slowly along side from aft so this was a one off, but could happen again.

 

[john_q]

HR, Najad and the like are designed for N. Europe and cold waters. Most circumnavigations spend a lot of time in warm waters. The French boats tend to be designed more for warm waters (wrt ventilation, cockpit space, cabin arrangement etc. )

Is this a factor in deciding?

MD

In the Tropics, YES,

A friend of mine in the NW Caribean has just bought a Nauticat 34 and the ventilation of the cabins is abysmal and the cockpit is like an oven due to the fixed windscreen and hard Bimini, no breeze at all

 

[rotrax]

In the Tropics, YES,

A friend of mine in the NW Caribean has just bought a Nauticat 34 and the ventilation of the cabins is abysmal and the cockpit is like an oven due to the fixed windscreen and hard Bimini, no breeze at all

This is one area where Island Packets are good-the coachroof is their patented closed cell foam sandwich which offers excellent insulation, the ventilation is first class and they were built for Florida and the tropics. The cream/off white /beige colour reflects heat but does not glare as much as a white boat.

Good choice for those reasons alone if sailing where its hot.

 

[geem]

Bowman, Rival and Contessa are all good proven sea boats. We had a Dutch built heavy displacement, long keel with cutaway forefoot steel ketch. This was on the premise that if you sail for long enough you will hit something or something will hit you. We got hit twice once by the bows when we were at anchor but have no idea by what, we were off the boat. We were also at anchor off Dominica when a heavy pirogue approached fast at 90 degrees to our beam and couldn't get it out of gear. The result was chipped paint which I repainted, it would have punched a hole in GRP boat. Most boat boys in the Caribbean approach slowly along side from aft so this was a one off, but could happen again.

Being hit at anchor is hardly a good reason for a steel boat. I am sure there are lots of people on this forum that swear by steel boats and that fine. The guys we know that have steel boats or have had them in the past all moved away or are planning to move to GRP. The maintenance work on steel is significant . Our New Zealand friends have sailed around the world twice. First time on a steel boat. Second time one a cold moulded wooden boat. The wooden boat was less maintenance according to them. They then moved to GRP.
We met a guy sailing a large Dutch sailing barge around the world. We asked how he kept it in such good condition. He said he worked a regulars 9 to 5, five days a week to keep it like this. He wasn't kidding. It's not for me. There is enough to do on a low maintenance GRP hulled boat without adding corrosion to the list.

 

[jordanbasset]

I think the above posts on this thread illustrate there is always a compromise. The ideal boat for a transit/circum navigation is not necessarily the ideal boat for sitting at anchor and crawling around the caribbean or exploring the ICW etc. I am aware of people in very substantial and quality boats, such as the Bowman, realise it was not the ideal boat for the med for example. But to cross oceans it would be way up there for me. I suppose it depends on what your idea of a transit means to you. Is it a trip across the Atlantic, a few days rest and then back to the UK or onwards into the Pacific. Or is it 20 days or so crossing the Atlantic and then 6 months exploring the Caribbean. In which case you decision may be different.

 

[Gerry]

I think the above posts on this thread illustrate there is always a compromise. The ideal boat for a transit/circum navigation is not necessarily the ideal boat for sitting at anchor and crawling around the caribbean or exploring the ICW etc. I am aware of people in very substantial and quality boats, such as the Bowman, realise it was not the ideal boat for the med for example. But to cross oceans it would be way up there for me. I suppose it depends on what your idea of a transit means to you. Is it a trip across the Atlantic, a few days rest and then back to the UK or onwards into the Pacific. Or is it 20 days or so crossing the Atlantic and then 6 months exploring the Caribbean. In which case you decision may be different.

Interesting comment. I am surprised that the Bowman was not thought highly of in the Med, as I haven't visited there yet I can't comment. What I can offer is that we have spent the last 10 years in the Caribbean, South, Central and North American (including the ICW) on the Bowman and life was just as comfortable living aboard as it was crossing oceans. Sometimes staying in the same spot for a few years, sometimes moving every day. Whilst many boats, including Island Packets, opted for air conditioning in the Tropics we found the ventilation onboard plus a good wind scoop to be sufficient to make life reasonably comfortable.

I can understand the original poster thinking that these boats may be too old in 5-10 years time but I am not sure he's correct. We are currently doing a major refit ready for another 10 years of cruising- which will bring the age of the boat to 35. The hull is sound, well designed and strongly built. The rig can be renewed and the interior refurbished. Electronics, if you want them, will always need upgrading. I believe that some of these boats will live to become classics and keep sailing for many years to come.

I have yet to see a modern design that I believe betters the Bowman. I guess it depends on what you want. We made our boat our home, we are confident to cross oceans on her, live aboard in Tropical and Northern climates.

 

[Tranona]

Interesting comment. I am surprised that the Bowman was not thought highly of in the Med, as I haven't visited there yet I can't comment.

The Med is not really a good place for actually sailing - or at least in the most popular parts. You tend to spend a lot of time drifting in light airs, motoring, anchored or backed up to a quay. AWBs are popular because they usually sail well in light airs, motor well and have big open cockpits with open transoms for boarding and swimming from. Ability to go backwards reliably in crowded harbours is also valuable. Heavy weather is rare, at least in summer and easily avoided.

All adds up to different requirements from long distance cruising under sail that the Bowman type is so good at. Of course, perhaps because the Med orientated boats are made in such large numbers they are also used for long distance cruising, and few builders make Bowman type yachts anymore.

 

[mobeydick]

I can understand the original poster thinking that these boats may be too old in 5-10 years time but I am not sure he's correct. We are currently doing a major refit ready for another 10 years of cruising- which will bring the age of the boat to 35. The hull is sound, well designed and strongly built. The rig can be renewed and the interior refurbished. Electronics, if you want them, will always need upgrading. I believe that some of these boats will live to become classics and keep sailing for many years to come.

The sailing/rough weather quailities of this type (also HR etc) of boat are well know, but I would be interested to know what makes it good for the tropics.

MD

 

[Gerry]

The sailing/rough weather quailities of this type (also HR etc) of boat are well know, but I would be interested to know what makes it good for the tropics.

MD

Well she actually sails well in light airs, we can usually keep sailing, albeit slowly, in under 3 knots of wind- enough to keep you moving along!

She is well insulated and doesn't have huge hatches so can be kept a tad cooler below decks. We actually found that teak decks worked in our favour! Throwing water across them helps cool the boat through evaporation- it was a noticible drop in temperature after chucking water around.The hatches are located to ensure maximum airflow through the boat.

The cockpit is pretty sizeable, two of you can even sleep up there if you want to with the help of a small wooden insert to lengthen the side benches around the wheel. Our kids enjoyed sleeping up there a lot!

She draws 4' 6'' so pretty good access into reef anchorages and with the added strength of a schiel keel the occassional grounding is not so traumatic...

Water from tropical rainstorms is simple to collect from the sidedecks, after allowing a few minutes to clean, as the fillers are located at the lowest point on each side. We have frequently filled our tanks in 10-15 minutes in a good downpour.

 

[jordanbasset]

Interesting comment. I am surprised that the Bowman was not thought highly of in the Med,

The Med is not really a good place for actually sailing - or at least in the most popular parts. You tend to spend a lot of time drifting in light airs, motoring, anchored or backed up to a quay. AWBs are popular because they usually sail well in light airs, motor well and have big open cockpits with open transoms for boarding and swimming from. Ability to go backwards reliably in crowded harbours is also valuable. Heavy weather is rare, at least in summer and easily avoided.

All adds up to different requirements from long distance cruising under sail that the Bowman type is so good at. Of course, perhaps because the Med orientated boats are made in such large numbers they are also used for long distance cruising, and few builders make Bowman type yachts anymore.

Thank you Tranona, explained why better than I could. Am not saying they are not a good boat, they clearly are, just there are more suitable boats for the med

 

[jdc]

I heartily recommend a cutter rig: it makes all the difference to sailing comfortably upwind in moderate to strong winds.

If you stretch to 42', can I mention Rustler since nobody else has. Same stable as the Bowman - which are excellent boats absolutely suitable for the purpose - but the Rustler is usefully faster and more modern. A Rustler 42 was 1st in class in this year's AZAB btw.

For saving money once cruising (ignoring the cost of the boat of course!!) then autonomy is an aspect as well: the longer you are happy, safe and comfortable and not reliant on marinas the cheaper it will probably be.

 

[Tranona]

One thing that was missing from the start of this thread was budget for boat purchase. Based on the OPs suggestions it seems that he (along with many others who have contributed) are considering relatively small budgets which limits choice realistically to 30 year old boats. Even the Bowmans or similar can be had for around £100k, but with a bigger budget a whole raft of new possibilities come into the frame.