Your ideal 36-40ft Transat/Circumnav Boat..

Dino

Dino

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Following on from the Worst Sailing boat thread, what would be your ideal boat for an Atlantic Circuit or even a Circumnavigation?
I've read where a lot of bluewater sailors say sub 40ft is a good way to keep mooring costs in check.
There also seem to be a lot more large scale production boats like Bavarias, Beneataus and Jeanneaus doing ARC's, Transats and Bluewater adventures.

I'm mainly a racer but I'm toying around with the idea of taking a 2 to 3 year sabbatical to go cruising.
My ideal boat would have a big aft cockpit rather than centre cockpit
Sloop rig but maybe cutter
Decent sailing performance
Lots of storage
Fin or long keel
Suitable for singlehanding
Wheel steering

Boats that seem to tick the box for me are Westerly Typhoon, Wauquiez Hood 38 or Centurian 40 and the Oyster Heritage 37.
The Oyster Ketch 39 and some Moody's looks like good boats also but I'm not sure about centre cockpits. The look a bit exposed and shallow.
 
For me it would be a Halburg Rassey or a Najad.
Centre cockpit works for me but I do appreciate that there are pros and cons.
The Baltic boats have very good shelter and the above are well thought out for cruising so popular for this purpose.
I'd also consider a 42 or 43 which can still be managed short-handed but sub-40 would be OK for a couple.
 
I have thought a lot about this. In general, bigger is better for safety so I would go for around the 45' mark. Much bigger and it starts getting difficult in lots of practical ways. For adventurous sailing I would think some kind of longish keel. Perhaps not a full length keel but one with a bit of a bite out of it. This gives good impact resistance and helps prevent pots and nets getting tangled. Cockpit position is a matter of personal preference where I prefer a rear cockpit rather than a centre one. For construction material it is hard to beat steel or aluminium although I favour cold moulded construction.

For steering I prefer tiller but most people like a wheel. I think this is personal preference although there are design implications for the rudder etc with larger boats and a tiller. Most boats can be rigged for single handed or short handed but it would be nice to have some of the dedicated features that make this easier. I favour sloop rig and I don't think storage will be a problem with this size of boat in a modern or semi-modern design.

My plan is to have a one-off custom made boat but of the ones out there to purchase the Halberg Rassey, Amel etc seem most suited. That said, all sort of 'unsuitable' boats seem to do this sort of thing all the time. Look up yacht Teleport on youtube!
 
The ideal boat is one which you actually get round to leaving on... :)

A few thoughts..


dherraghty said:
I've read where a lot of bluewater sailors say sub 40ft is a good way to keep mooring costs in check.
Click to expand...
In

the Med maybe, most other places everyone lives at anchor.


Sloop rig but maybe cutter - Cutter for me, get all the sail near the middle and down low in a blow, hanked on as well so not reliant on a furling line.

Decent sailing performance - Not that big a deal, most of your time is spent in anchorages. Fixing broken things. A good passage isn't a fast one, but one where not much broke :)

Lots of storage - :encouragement::encouragement::encouragement:


Fin or long keel - Long is nice and steady plus will withstand a grounding better

Suitable for singlehanding - :encouragement::encouragement:

Wheel steering - Tiller works better with a (essential) windvane plus less to break.
 
Somewhat biased but my Bowman 40 is the bees knees so far as I am concerned. Cutter rigged, med displacment, wheel steering with Monitor windvane, loads of storage, sails brilliantly in light airs and steadily in heavy weather.

She's now done 10 Atlantic crossings, countless miles and just preparing for the next 10 year cruise................
Sail two up which effectively means that most of the time we are single handing on passages as one of us is asleep! Not the swiftest boat on the ocean but probably one of the safest and most dependable.
 
dherraghty said:
I've read where a lot of bluewater sailors say sub 40ft is a good way to keep mooring costs in check.
Click to expand...

I don't think I've ever heard that. In fact I've heard the exact opposite, advocating a large boat (keeping the costs down with simple gear if need be) on the grounds that nobody's charging you per metre to anchor off Bongo Bongo Island.

Pete
 
Lagoon 380 - from before 2004 when they added hard tops and made the seat one storey higher, so boom even higher, and had a decent kitchen/living room/chart table all upstairs with nearly 360 degree fully enclosed view.

Perfect for rolly anchorages and obviously won't roll downwind. Will easily average 9 knots once 60 degrees off wind - we managed to get 15 knots peak in a Lagoon 410 on an Atlantic crossing but the same crew got 18 knots peak on a 380. And will beat perfectly upright at 45 degrees to true at around 6 knots in 15 knots of breeze - meaning you can live and cook for days on end when beating in relative comfort. Finally, and to me this was the real selling point, they feel far bigger and safer in very big waves and wind (ok, only in my experience up to 50 knot gust and 40 knot constant) than any monohull and are far less likely to be flipped by a wave on the side than a monohull.

Oh and shoal draft too meaning you can anchor close up to those nice white beaches with lots of cabin, storage and heads space. The only reason I don't own a cat now is that my next few years will be in the Med where width, marina costs and harbour wall space matter in a way they wouldn't much doing blue water and Caribbean sailing.
 
RupertW said:
are far less likely to be flipped by a wave on the side than a monohull.
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Everything else in your post makes a lot of sense, but this bit surprises me. Intuitively it feels like a wider boat is more likely to get rolled over, since on the face of a wave the leeward side will be further below the windward one.

Pete
 
prv said:
Everything else in your post makes a lot of sense, but this bit surprises me. Intuitively it feels like a wider boat is more likely to get rolled over, since on the face of a wave the leeward side will be further below the windward one.

Pete
Click to expand...

Yes, I thought this was one of the main reasons for avoiding cats in open oceans.
 
prv said:
Everything else in your post makes a lot of sense, but this bit surprises me. Intuitively it feels like a wider boat is more likely to get rolled over, since on the face of a wave the leeward side will be further below the windward one.

Pete
Click to expand...

Have had the dubious pleasure of being in mid atlantic, 50 to 55 knots for almost 2 days, Fontaine Pajot 40'

Didn't ever really have a concern about stability, felt right.

Mind you, my 2 crew were a bit round eyed........
 
pmagowan said:
Yes, I thought this was one of the main reasons for avoiding cats in open oceans.
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Suspect that's more about the fact that if you do manage to roll one, it's not coming back. I wasn't going to go there :)

And quite a few people do sail oceans in catamarans. After all, few boats ever actually end up in survival storms big enough to flip a 40 footer, especially when you have satellite weather maps and can do 10+ knots to get out of the way.

Pete
 
prv said:
Suspect that's more about the fact that if you do manage to roll one, it's not coming back. I wasn't going to go there :)

And quite a few people do sail oceans in catamarans. After all, few boats ever actually end up in survival storms big enough to flip a 40 footer, especially when you have satellite weather maps and can do 10+ knots to get out of the way.

Pete
Click to expand...

Yes, but it is this initial stability that is their downfall in a storm, mid ocean. They will immediately follow the angle of a wave and, if it breaks, they will flip. A monohull will not, it has poor initial stability but the curve is such that it will resist fliping in such conditions. Also, as you say, any conditions that flip a monohull will also right it. A cat could be the wrong way up for quite some time until another breaking wave, large enough comes along. Of course, all this is only a risk in conditions with massive waves but this is exactly what blue water sailing risks. In the vast majority of cases the initial stability of a cat will never get pushed far enough to flip it.
 
I think there is a disparity between the ideal boat and the boat you would like. The ideal boat would have large fuel and water tanks a long keel and ketch rigged. Oh I think I have just described the Spray! Realistically the nearest to that description is going to be an Island Packet or a Nauticat.

What would I choose in that size range probably a Southerly 38. Nothing really draws less, it can dry out too and is comfortable and solidly built. This choice would give you a decent sailing performance as well. ticks all boxes for it's size but it not as sensible as the above.
 
pmagowan said:
Yes, but it is this initial stability that is their downfall in a storm, mid ocean. They will immediately follow the angle of a wave and, if it breaks, they will flip. A monohull will not, it has poor initial stability but the curve is such that it will resist fliping in such conditions. Also, as you say, any conditions that flip a monohull will also right it. A cat could be the wrong way up for quite some time until another breaking wave, large enough comes along. Of course, all this is only a risk in conditions with massive waves but this is exactly what blue water sailing risks. In the vast majority of cases the initial stability of a cat will never get pushed far enough to flip it.
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I think the main reason for not using a cat is the motion. How many cats capsize over the course of a year? One was lost recently off South Africa but I can't remember the last one to go missing. I think you can balance the risk of flipping a cat with running aground on a reef and I think that more monohulls sink on reefs each year than cats flipping.
 
Seven Spades said:
I think the main reason for not using a cat is the motion. How many cats capsize over the course of a year? One was lost recently off South Africa but I can't remember the last one to go missing. I think you can balance the risk of flipping a cat with running aground on a reef and I think that more monohulls sink on reefs each year than cats flipping.
Click to expand...

All these risks are small but if you are defining the ideal boat for the job then I think it has to be a monohull. Of course this depends on how much importance you give to various aspects. For space the cat wins :)
 
Seven Spades said:
I think there is a disparity between the ideal boat and the boat you would like. The ideal boat would have large fuel and water tanks a long keel and ketch rigged. Oh I think I have just described the Spray! Realistically the nearest to that description is going to be an Island Packet or a Nauticat.

What would I choose in that size range probably a Southerly 38. Nothing really draws less, it can dry out too and is comfortable and solidly built. This choice would give you a decent sailing performance as well. ticks all boxes for it's size but it not as sensible as the above.
Click to expand...

Not exactly the budget choice though. I suppose by the time I am buying my cruising boat they will be 15 years old. So a bit cheaper.

The other thing i have noticed is that the hr 372 for example is pretty light. 7.5t to southerly 38 9.8t. So the old heavy weights are now medium. So all confusing!
 
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In fact the rm1260 (lightweight french boat yada yada yada) is 7.2t so not much lighter than the hr 372. Southerly only has 225 l water, rm has 400. And is teak really a good idea on a 15 year old boat.

Hmmmmmm
 
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