Yotty Snobbery

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

You lot aint experienced snobbery until you have sailed a cat, I think to many we are below jet ski's for contempt.

Could you imagine if we all sailed the same thing, not being able to race that new boat that has cost someone sums of cash you could not raise. Sometimes actually having the edge on them. Yet, IMHO it does not matter what people sail, as long as they enjoy it. The moment I start snubbing lets say swiss yachts for example is the day I have stopped enjoying sailing and the day I buy a hot air balloon, cos I really want one !!

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/TC_IrishCruise_2003_00.html>Irish Cruise</A>

 

[Jeremy_W]

I recently sailed with Old Gaffers. While they're very friendly people I think the OGA is the only sub-group within sailing that publishes a songbook mocking the other types of yachts..

To the tune of that sixties song about little houses made of ticky-tacky...

There's a white one, and a white one and a white one etc.

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[Violetta]

Here\'s a little tip for you, Robin

"No-one can make you feel inferior without your permission" (Eleanor Roosevelt)

Wise words.

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[Violetta]

Can\'t help wondering, Mirelle..

Is "AWB" really so much worse than "unmanageable bitch"?

(I speak, of course, as the owner of an elderly, outdated, plastic, home-built, deeply unfashionable, bermuda-rigged craft that I wouldn't swap for any AWB you care to mention)

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[Robin]

Re: No NOT Political Correctness

Because I'm as anti PC as it is possible to be.

Any term that does not imply inferiority. Or should we run a forum competition to decide what to call wooden boats?

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[Robin]

Wasn\'t she one of the \'Supremes\'

Why on earth should you think I feel inferior? Such snobbery is irritating, maddening, saddening and boring, but has quite the opposite effect on me to making me feel inferior!

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[david]

You don\'t really mean that!

Re: "I wouldn't swap for any AWB"

I bet you would Auntie Vi, you can't tell me that at sometime somewhere that you have not looked at a pretty AWB and thought "thats nice".... "wish it were mine" come on tell us what you would swap for?

<hr width=100% size=1>David

 

[david]

AWB or BTW

You might say I'm trying to wind you up, I'm a snob /forums/images/icons/smile.gif but how about BTW (Better Than Wood) /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>David

 

[Robin]

Re: Can\'t help wondering, Mirelle..

Don't saddle me with that description, that was DeeGee's description of his Rustler 36. I think ALL boats have a beauty and nice personality, some maybe a mite more than others. PWCs are not boats by the way.

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[Violetta]

Indeed so

But it captures rather well the unpleasant tone of your recent criticisms of other people's boats and their owners. Methinks I spy a beam in your eye......

Having had a longish sailing career and having sailed all over Europe, for many years from the southwest and for many more from the east coast, in boats ranging from a 22 foot Kestrel and leaky wooden Dauntless to a 70 foot classic schooner and all points in between, and sometimes earning my living at it......I can honestly say that I have never encountered any behaviour that I would interpret as "snobbery". It's only when I came to internet boards that I became aware, not of snobbery, but of people accusing each other of snobbery. Maybe I've been lucky. But in my experience, snobbery, like beauty, is mainly in the eye of the beholder. There is no defence against other people's projections.

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[Twister_Ken]

Agreed

Violetta - that reflects a conversation I was involved in last night, that almost without exception, nice people go sailing and/or sailors are nice people (no aspersions being cast at motoboaters, just that I haven't met so many of them).

In fact, I can only think of one or two people I've met in 30+ years of sailing who get right up my nose.


<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[Robin]

Re: Indeed so

<But it captures rather well the unpleasant tone of your recent criticisms of other people's boats and their owners>

Please tell me what you think you are talking about. I have not criticised anyones boats or any owners. From my seat the unpleasant tones right now seem to emanate from an East Coast direction.

I must not be able to get my message across. I am TRYING to suggest that we are all boaters, that NONE are either superior boaters or inferior boaters. I am also trying to raise from the depths the camaraderie that existed much more strongly a few years back when fellow boaters passing made a friendly wave and helped or at least offered to help when another was entering a berth.



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[Mirelle]

BTW it is, then!

There is a silly sort of problem here.

I cannot possibly expect anyone who is not a wooden boat fanatic like me to say "Ah, yes, late 1930's, very typical William Blake design, old fashioned rig on metacentric shelf theory hull, probably built by Claude Whisstock" when looking at my boat, and the sort of people, like me, who look at a wooden boat and immediately say "Fred. Shepherd!" or "Kim Holman" tend to be a bit vague about modern boats. I am reasonably OK up to about the point, a few years back, when Westerlys stopped looking like Westerlys. From then on, unless I can read the makers name, I get confused.

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[Twister_Ken]

The maker\'s name.

It's getting easier, though, Mirelle. because the maker's name s is getting bigger. On an old woody you might not find a maker's name anywhere. If you do, it will be very discreet, like on the top of the rudder post. Later on, some builders put a small plaque in the cockpit area. This was followed by some tasteful signwriting, perhaps on the outside of the cockpit coaming. Nowadays, it 's often writ large on the topsides. Or stated boldly on the sails.

Can you order a modern boat 'debadged'?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[tcm]

Re: The maker\'s name.

But who would want to rebadge a "Feeling 28" ?

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[Mirelle]

Re: Indeed so

Your initial post might be read in the sense that Violetta implies; indeed I initially thought it quite offensive! When I read your later replies I realised that had not been your intention.

It is terribly easy to cause offence on bulletin boards; I have certainly been guilty of this; not intentionally.

I think that quite a divide has indeed crept into sailing; the equipment and skills needed to sail and maintain a BTW are really quite different to those needed to sail and maintain either a wooden boat or an earlier GRP boat. Not better or worse but certainly different.

I don't have a chart plotter, fridge, shower, electric bilge pump, roller reefing headsail, in mast furling or fully battened mainsail, etc. Therefore I cannot join in a discussion about these things, whilst you might not be very interested in a discussion about setting a jackyard topsail.

Whilst we both have alternator belts, my boat's speed under power is very limited -about three knots, really. So there once again is a difference.

However, this Great Divide can be crossed, both ways. I have a friend who sold a 1930's wooden sloop and bought a new Beneteau and another friend who did just the reverse; both appear to be perfectly happy, although both have friends who think they are mad!

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Mirelle on 19/09/2003 11:00 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[tcm]

Re: drawing the line

Um, you "drew the line" at PWC's. Which does rather indicate that you do actually subscribe to a hierarchy. Putting up a detailed list and then saying "but of course i don't belive in any of this" doesn't really hold water, does it? You seem almost proud to be able to count stinkies amongst your friends too. This only a little short of "there are even some black people living in our street".

Personally, PWC's loafing around near an anchorage with enormous speed and hence able to help quickly have helped me out on more than one occssion with towing a busted dinghy. Uncomplicated kids find these fantastic fun - but they also enjoy skippering a laser, perhaps more so depending on the conditions.

An uncomfortable thread imho. I thought we had got past this.



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[Robin]

Re: Indeed so

Thanks Mirelle

I certainly did not intend any offense.

Maybe I should have left out the story about the alternator belt but it was a true story and I used it as an example and indeed a warning of what that kind of attitude can achieve.

I would have hoped (and this is a difficulty with BBs) that all my readers would have realised from many previous posts on many different topics what my real thoughts are. I love boats, all boats, in all shapes and sizes and anyone owning one is therefore bound to be a most excellent person until I discover otherwise, ie the default is 'jolly nice person'. I do not like however to see the own-corner digging that is going on in some cases, it gets tedious. There may for example be quite a few Ben/Jen/Bav/Hans owners lurking out there in the 'anonymous' list that are reluctant to post in case they get the full treatment from resident experts.

Happy sailing to ALL, another hour and I'm off to the boat!



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[Robin]

Re: drawing the line

Someone else mentioned stinkies here before I did, in the context that I had missed them off my category list, otherwise I would not even have mentioned them in a post entitled 'snooty yotties'. Actually I have so far not met a snooty stinkie though no doubt they exist too.

I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable, that is the efect PWCs have on me. That is one area where nothing is likely to change my views. I confess to being an absolutely biased bigot as far as PWCs are concerned. In that at least I do not feel alone.

I'm beginning to think I'll retire from posting on here since everyone takes such offence.

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[tcm]

Re: drawing the line

aw not to worry - you chose a very tough subject and i didn't mean to pull you up so sharp, scuse me

Meanwhile, jimi's flippin washing up liquid thread goes from strength to strength....

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