BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
it would be great if the forum could allow the OP to lock a thread at a suitable point such as this!
YM Nov issue, p45 "Always wear a life jacket."
- Thread starter BlueSkyNick
- Start date
Woodlouse
Well-Known Member
Instead of having someone able to rock up and announce...
No one should wear lifejackets. If you go overboard then you should cross your arms, fill your boots and go down like a gentleman. Requiring people to have to turn around to get you, or your corpse back is just selfish imho.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
If falling in causes instant death, what's the point of the lifejacket, exactly?
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Makes the body easier to recover, doesn't leave the sea looking untidy.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
I used to go sailing on a friend's boat in the Hamble winter series in the 80's before inflatable lifejackets were common - must admit that the thought of what would happen if I did go over the side, dressed up like a Michelin Man (with green gardening wellies...) was a strong incentive to try and stay on board..... and avoid having much to do with the pointy end of the boat, especially re kites....
And I used to crew on channel passages (booze cruises to Cherbourg were popular!), and later on a couple of trips across Biscay (incl one in November, which was not much fun) - never occurred to me to ask if we had lifejackets on board (I doubt we had) - but I made damn sure my harness was clipped on, especially when on night watches by myself (with 24 tonnes of boat surging along at 8+ knots), or when things got a bit hairy.
Sailed up to New England summer '95, and we had to remember to take lifejackets with us in the dinghy when going ashore (we always anchored off), otherwise we could be fined by the USCG for not having them (I dont think it was a requirement then to be actually wearing them....).
And this USCG rule also apparently applies in places like the US Virgin Islands - where you might decide to jump in from the dinghy to cool off as it is so hot....
However I would definitely want to be wearing a lifejacket (or at the very least a good buoyancy aid) in a dinghy when going ashore in mid-winter in high latitudes.
I suppose that lifejackets are a bit like religion, with lots of very passionate opinions about them. I have an inflatable L/J harness now, but I will still always put more faith in the harness and it's tether rather than in the L/J.
And I used to crew on channel passages (booze cruises to Cherbourg were popular!), and later on a couple of trips across Biscay (incl one in November, which was not much fun) - never occurred to me to ask if we had lifejackets on board (I doubt we had) - but I made damn sure my harness was clipped on, especially when on night watches by myself (with 24 tonnes of boat surging along at 8+ knots), or when things got a bit hairy.
Sailed up to New England summer '95, and we had to remember to take lifejackets with us in the dinghy when going ashore (we always anchored off), otherwise we could be fined by the USCG for not having them (I dont think it was a requirement then to be actually wearing them....).
And this USCG rule also apparently applies in places like the US Virgin Islands - where you might decide to jump in from the dinghy to cool off as it is so hot....
However I would definitely want to be wearing a lifejacket (or at the very least a good buoyancy aid) in a dinghy when going ashore in mid-winter in high latitudes.
I suppose that lifejackets are a bit like religion, with lots of very passionate opinions about them. I have an inflatable L/J harness now, but I will still always put more faith in the harness and it's tether rather than in the L/J.
Cornishman
Well-Known Member
"wear the jacket when the situation calls for it."
And nobody has ever been able to tell me exactly when that might be. To probably misquote a little the RNLI about lifejackets...useless until worn.
Attitudes to safety never cease to amaze me. As a former RNLI SEA Checker I can say here that whenever I went aboard other peoples' boats and began the discussion it quickly became apparent that the "wear it when the situation arises" brigade were in fact covering up for their own laziness.
And nobody has ever been able to tell me exactly when that might be. To probably misquote a little the RNLI about lifejackets...useless until worn.
Attitudes to safety never cease to amaze me. As a former RNLI SEA Checker I can say here that whenever I went aboard other peoples' boats and began the discussion it quickly became apparent that the "wear it when the situation arises" brigade were in fact covering up for their own laziness.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
I really don't think it helps to bring pejorative terms like "their own laziness" into the discussion. All it really says is "I am a morally superior person because I wear a lifejacket more than they do" and that does not advance the discussion. So lets stick to the issues, shall we, and try to leave the personalities out of it.
OK, back to the issues. Some friends of mine own a 24' motor work boat. They invited me out for a trip on her a couple of days ago, and we had a very pleasant chug down the Urr estuary and back. Should lifejackets be worn for a trip like that?
Additional information (1): Until a few months ago, the boat in question carried passengers on trips in the Dee estuary from Kirkcudbright. She was - and still is - fully certificated for doing so. Passengers were not required to wear lifejackets.
Additional information (2): She's rather bigger than the Helford ferry.
jimi
Well-Known Member
Topical .. from the Shockwave article
"Then we copped a set of about four waves in a row that were solid green water, sort of two metres over the top of the boat," he told the ABC. "When we turned around, he was gone. That was the last we saw of Andrew. And then, when we turned back for Sal, she was also gone." Mr Pearce said Mr Short was not wearing a lifejacket during the race. "Andrew, unfortunately, didn't have a lifejacket on that night. I think a lot of skippers tend not to a lot of the time."
"Then we copped a set of about four waves in a row that were solid green water, sort of two metres over the top of the boat," he told the ABC. "When we turned around, he was gone. That was the last we saw of Andrew. And then, when we turned back for Sal, she was also gone." Mr Pearce said Mr Short was not wearing a lifejacket during the race. "Andrew, unfortunately, didn't have a lifejacket on that night. I think a lot of skippers tend not to a lot of the time."
ribrunt
Well-Known Member
Toad.... a little disingenous. Are you suggesting they recommend to their crew they clip on and don't wear a LJ? LJs & helmets are the ONLY mandatory PPE for ILB crew (and I suspect just LJs for ALB crew). The ALB crew don't generally wear drysuits. The RNLI's view on sea survival *starts* with LJ and goes on from there...
With some debate regarding how those LJs were worn...!
If your friend is using inflatable LJs in Swiftwater scenarios then he has the wrong PPE & should *probably* not be in the water.
Lots of speculation regarding Cold Water Shock & the effects of hypothermia on this thread too (whats new.....) - it is a physiological response and "expecting it" doesn't really help, and even Duncan Goodhew can (has!) suffer from Swim Failure due to cold water .... For the facts & informed opinion about immersion / hypothermia read Essentials of Sea Survival by Golden/Tipton.
As for the topic - unless I'm looking for the body, I pretty much don't care what other people do, I know what I do based on an informed decision.
jimi
Well-Known Member
extract from a similar thread on a climbing forum about wearing helmets ;-)
by aaa
There was a time when I only wore mine for mountain terrain or loose quarries, and would have greatly resented it for anything else. However I do wear it for pretty much everything now. I guess I've gotten older and more sensible, but have probably also responded to the wider shift towards lid-use. But I would always oppose any sort of prescriptive attitude towards the issue; that is the diametric opposite of what climbing is about; personal choice and responsibility.
by xxx
Yeh i always wear my mine nowadays,
by - yyy on - 00:14 Wed
In reply to xxx: Helmets are gay. You're gay.
by aaa
There was a time when I only wore mine for mountain terrain or loose quarries, and would have greatly resented it for anything else. However I do wear it for pretty much everything now. I guess I've gotten older and more sensible, but have probably also responded to the wider shift towards lid-use. But I would always oppose any sort of prescriptive attitude towards the issue; that is the diametric opposite of what climbing is about; personal choice and responsibility.
by xxx
Yeh i always wear my mine nowadays,
by - yyy on - 00:14 Wed
In reply to xxx: Helmets are gay. You're gay.
VictorII
Well-Known Member
What a load of b*******! You don't die from inhaling water in your lungs, not even in a gasp reflex. Normal people start coughing violently once the LJ has refloated them. Humans with beating hearts are quite good at removing water from the lungs.
If you don't wear a LJ, you might not have the strength to resurface, which would make coughing somewhat awkward. Hard to believe there is such debate about this....
If you don't wear a LJ, you might not have the strength to resurface, which would make coughing somewhat awkward. Hard to believe there is such debate about this....
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
Easy Tiger - you may want to check facts first (I know, an outdated practice)
From the document found here:
the head goes under water, the gasp reflex can easily result in aspiration of water followed by syncope (passing out) and eventually drowning
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Not at all. I'm saying the RNLI take a well considered veiw of their own safety, and come to the conclusion that clipping on, wearing helmets & protection from cold plus a myriad of other things all have their place. In contrast for the humble yachtsman they offer the dangerously simplistic advice 'wear a lifejacket'.
Looking at the quality of the jackstays on a Tyne Class I think the people at the grass roots take a rather more considered view than that.
Missing the point?
Danny Jo
Well-Known Member
Attitudes to safety, including all the ones outlined in this thread don't amaze me, largely because I have used almost all of them to justify not wearing a life jacket. But limiting this judgement strictly to myself, I believe that those justifications are to some degree selfish. If there was no-one else in the world, I could do what I like. But for the sake of my family and of those in the rescue services who might be involved in the search for and recovery of my body, I think I should wear a lifejacket and harness, and clip on when leaving the cockpit. (I cannot see any point in purchasing a harness without a lifejacket - the nuisance value is not significantly less.)
But then I also think I should limit my alcohol consumption to less than 28 units a week, and I don't always achieve that goal either.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Oh Yawn ...
ribrunt
Well-Known Member
Toad - apologies if I misread your posting. Given the struggle they are having getting the Wear a LJ message over, can you imagine anything more complex working
Inflatable LJs should not be used in swift/inland water rescue scenarios - typically SRTs use bouyancy aids & other PPE.
Inflatable LJs should not be used in swift/inland water rescue scenarios - typically SRTs use bouyancy aids & other PPE.
mixmaster
Well-Known Member
So would the lifejackte all the time camp wear a lifejacket all the time while offshore in the tropics? For weeks?
Seanick
Well-Known Member
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
Nick, when I click on your link above, I get "This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions"
But they give a selection of other videos, all of which appear to be fairly dramatic re boat accidents, launches - and the Marejada salvage tug under way at speed in heavy weather, very impressive.
What is your link about?
But they give a selection of other videos, all of which appear to be fairly dramatic re boat accidents, launches - and the Marejada salvage tug under way at speed in heavy weather, very impressive.
What is your link about?
Seanick
Well-Known Member
Its the video to Alan Jacksons 'Its five oclock somewhere'.
40' motor boat, planing, band on foredeck playing guitars, no LJ's, no gaurdrails...
Just found it funny due to the above lengthy thread!
40' motor boat, planing, band on foredeck playing guitars, no LJ's, no gaurdrails...
Just found it funny due to the above lengthy thread!