YM exam?

[prv]

Like blinkers on a racehorse, perhaps?

Kind of, yes, but in a vertical sense rather than a horizontal one.

There is also a smaller and more comfortable device than the classic visor, which is like a pair of safety glasses with most of the lens frosted. A small piece at the bottom (like the close-work part on bifocals) is left clear to see the instruments.

My dad's plane also used to have some fittings on top of the dashboard which held metal slats upright in front of the windscreen. They were angled so that the pilot in the left-hand seat couldn't see between them, but the instructor / safety pilot in the right-hand seat could. Don't know how well the system worked as the slats had long since gone missing.

Pete

 

[prv]

I also wish there was a clear cut way of doing parts of the syllabus

It might be argued that there's a bit of contradiction in your post. On the one hand you say you seem to wish that the RYA were more clear cut in what they suggest in how to do things on a yacht but want to take your own short cuts. You then say you don't want rote learning but to learn from first principles..

I think you're talking at cross purposes. AP doesn't want a fixed way of performing a given task, he wants a clear way to book himself on a course that only covers a subset of what's in YM.

Pete

 

[Austerby]

I took my YM practical exactly two years ago this week. I'd had a week's preparatory course but what took me most by surprise was the personal stress levels I felt during the test. This was nothing to do with the examiner himself - he was absolute professional charm - but I reacted more strongly than I anticipated to having someone onboard who was evidently supremely competent and it meant I saw myself through his eyes and knew all my limitations were very clearly identified and understood.

The stress meant I made a few more silly mistakes than I should have done but clearly the examiner understood and made allowances for this and I passed.

It was strange as I don't usually get stressed like that - it was entirely personally driven and it's the first and only time in my life I felt like that. It must have been important to me to seek the examiner's approval!

Since then I can't say I've really "used" the YM much - I day-sail my own boat mostly, which hasn't changed that much and day-skipper was adequate for chartering. However, I'm personally proud to have achieved it.

 

[jamesjermain]

'Accidental Gybe is not good. Being dangerous in ANY way is NOT GOOD! (Not just dropping the boom on people's heads...)

However assuming its not outright dangerous I always remind candidates that getting something wrong is not necessarily a problem; its how they cope with sorting things out that matters. But before you get too confident or reassured, getting simple things wrong doesn't impress either... '

Exactly so. I made a mess of picking a buoy up under sail - something I did regularly on an almost daily basis back then. The fact that I acknowledged the mess, gave clear instructions for a recovery plan, including starting the engine (yes it was that bad) and executed it successfully helped me get through

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It might be argued that there's a bit of contradiction in your post. On the one hand you say you seem to wish that the RYA were more clear cut in what they suggest in how to do things on a yacht but want to take your own short cuts. You then say you don't want rote learning but to learn from first principles..

I think you have misunderstood that part of my post. I wish that there was a clear cut way of doing PARTS of the course; in other word, that the courses were structured into separable modules that would allow an experienced sailor to do only those parts that he/she felt were necessary. Of course, an examiner would have to assess whether the trainee did in fact have the knowledge/experience they were claiming to gain a qualification, but in most cases this would be apparent.

I completely agree that there can't be an "approved" way of doing things - but sadly, many people on these fora quote times and places where an examiner or tutor has insisted on things being done in a particular way, which is not necessarily the best way for a particular boat or crew. Most recently, on a MOB thread, there have been examples of perfectly safe and successful methods of returning to an MOB being disallowed by tutors, and the trainee being requested to carry out the exercise in a prescribed way. I recognize that this isn't necessarily a fault of the system but rather of individual tutors and/or examiners, but enough examples are reported here to suggest that some parts of the training system DO expect things to be done in a particular way.

 

[nimbusgb]

Aha! Got me too. I was going to say, wouldn't it be easier to wait till it got dark to simulate night sailing by doing it for real? Even now, at the end of May on the UK South coast, at least, there is plenty of dark.

The day I did mine I had an odd experience which I have never known whether it was part of the exam or just a coincidence. Just as the examiner arrived, a certain moodynick of this parish called me on the vhf to say that one of my pontoon neighbours - a white ensign wearing gentleman of a military disposition and advancing years - was coming in rather hot on his final approach with his main jammed half way up the mast and for gawd's sake could I use my ingenuity to at least cushion the impact.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, by the time I'd taken a couple of lines and the fuss had died down I was pretty much ready for any curveballs the examiner could throw at me.

It's not good waiting till it's really dark because then its not a simulation!

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

It's not good waiting till it's really dark because then its not a simulation!

+1.

...and if you wait 'till dark for the night sailing test you'd interfere with the Daylight sailing module which is done at midnight with spotlights to simulate daylight.

 

[benjenbav]

I think you have misunderstood that part of my post. I wish that there was a clear cut way of doing PARTS of the course; in other word, that the courses were structured into separable modules that would allow an experienced sailor to do only those parts that he/she felt were necessary. Of course, an examiner would have to assess whether the trainee did in fact have the knowledge/experience they were claiming to gain a qualification, but in most cases this would be apparent.

There is though. I spoke to my (then) prospective instructor and said that I'd been knocking around in boats since I was a small boy and felt pretty comfortable, had never taken any formal courses but had decided that I would like to attempt the YM offshore. We arranged that he would spend a day with me to assess my strengths and weaknesses, which we then discussed and subsequently spent a few sessions together focusing on the latter and then I booked an examiner to test me.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I think you have misunderstood that part of my post. I wish that there was a clear cut way of doing PARTS of the course; ....

Are you not making an issue where there is none? If you want to have a course completion certificate then you to do the course which involves a stipulated minimum time on the course; if you know your stuff book an exam and be assessed within 12 hours. Own boat tuition is one method of covering parts of a syllabus that you may feel you need guidance on. This is readily available from many schools.

 

[benjenbav]

+1.

...and if you wait 'till dark for the night sailing test you'd interfere with the Daylight sailing module which is done at midnight with spotlights to simulate daylight.

Isn't this making it more complicated than it needs to be? Just start at noon and finish at 1am. Then you get light, dark and all states of the tide.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Isn't this making it more complicated than it needs to be? Just start at noon and finish at 1am. Then you get light, dark and all states of the tide.

Tide? Stupid boy! You simulate tide by having the yacht transported to a freshwater lake and sail up and down in the propwash from a trip boat.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

There is though. I spoke to my (then) prospective instructor and said that I'd been knocking around in boats since I was a small boy and felt pretty comfortable, had never taken any formal courses but had decided that I would like to attempt the YM offshore. We arranged that he would spend a day with me to assess my strengths and weaknesses, which we then discussed and subsequently spent a few sessions together focusing on the latter and then I booked an examiner to test me.

Are you not making an issue where there is none? If you want to have a course completion certificate then you to do the course which involves a stipulated minimum time on the course; if you know your stuff book an exam and be assessed within 12 hours. Own boat tuition is one method of covering parts of a syllabus that you may feel you need guidance on. This is readily available from many schools.

I'm afraid you're missing my point. Yes, I know there are ways and means - but the course is not structured so as to make it a straightforward matter to do part of the course. Schools or clubs may or may not be able to adapt as you suggest, but there is no structural reason why they should do so. Surely if the courses were clearly organized in a fully modular manner it would make it more flexible? At present there is no CLEAR CUT way of doing it - you are in the hands of the school or tutor you approach. And many commercial schools have no interest in people who don't sign on for a week.

What I'd like to see is a way of doing a one day course on (say) IRPCS, which is certificated and can be counted towards an eventual award of YM or whatever. Award of YM would then be dependent on accumulating (probably within a set time) a certain set of base modules, along with assessment of skills not covered by examined modules. So, for example, I would take modules in weather and IRPCS, and would be assessed on navigation and sailing skills. I'd suggest that crew management ought to be an optional module, given (at the very least) it's very different application in a family cruiser, a racing yacht and a training boat.

I'm not suggesting much beyond the existing situation with skills like VHF, Diesel Engines and Sea Survival. AFAIR, all are essential to get some of the higher Yachtmaster qualifications, but are expected to be gained independently of the main course.

 

[GruffT]

Getting back to the OP. I did mine last year and found the exam really useful. While I passed it really pointed out to me where my own weaknesses are. I've used it on a number of occasions for chartering and it does make the whole process much easier.

In terms of what to expect, I heard it said that to pass you should make the examiner feel like they would be comfortable sending their family on a cross channel with you. This includes your "style" as much as your pure skills. They will look at your log book and talk to you to assess your knowledge and "test" you on areas they consider are your weaker sides. I guess these become evident pretty quickly!

If you've been a dinghy helm for years you're unlikely to be taxed too firmly on your sailing skills but perhaps there will be more on larger crew management, giving instructions on tasks and nav. If you've years as an offshore racing nav but have fewer skipper days they might push you more on crew management, boat handling under power etc. If you've been on a course, even years ago, remember it and be prepared to talk about it.

You will get a MOB while sailing (probably when something has just gone a bit wrong) but not necessarily to be completed under sail.

One thing to think about, especially if you're are a regular crew taking the exam together, is the examiner is signing you off to be considered safe in charge of a yacht, be that with your buddies or a novice crew. Be aware of that both in how you ask for tasks to be completed and ensure the examiner knows you are checking that crew are doing things correctly and safely. Perhaps when the line wasn't cast off the drum properly in a tack, or if a jib sheet is cast off when you call to go "hove to", it was by the examiners design to see how you cope when your friends aren't crewing....

 

[Sailfree]

You will get a MOB while sailing (probably when something has just gone a bit wrong) but not necessarily to be completed under sail.

Not sure you are right.

On the W/E of my YM exam there was hardly any wind. Examiner abandoned the test on the Saturday night saying that we had done everything we could without wind and we could arrange an extra day to complete the test with wind above IIRC 8kts.

We arranged it for the next Wednesday (plenty of wind 16kts IIRC) and did MOB under sail, anchoring and departing under sail, picking up and departing from a mooring under sail and berthing under sail. Both of us passed but we both had the requisite experience (in my case I had my own 36' yacht for approx 2700mls as skipper including many X channels).

I think the RYA courses and exam system is great. I am aware that most pass YM & DS but failure rate for RYA YM instructors I was informed was 50% mostly due to poor temprement/teaching ability. Captain Blighs need not apply.

During our exam I felt we were thoroughly tested and examiner wanted to find our knowledge limits and improve them with helpful criticism. I had difficulty on the picking up a mooring under sail as the direction of the tide changed a lot in the approach direction. The examiner knew it was difficult and advised. Like most exams I was pleased to pass but recognised areas I could improve on.

10yrs later still feel the same and last year recognised a serious bad habit of relying on chartplotter which in the pitch black night passing through rocks S of Jersey was not clever. I was effectively single handed. Now also got a backup iPad with Navionics package.

As the RYA system is voluntary in the UK while many countries insist on compulsary examination for ICC (DS standard) I do find the frequent criticism of the RYA surprising as i would not expect any government body to devise anything better.

Do the courses and exams but never stop looking at yourself to stop bad habits creeping in or forgetting knowledge. Personally I like my crew to keep asking questions as I can then give either the correct answer or what I think is the correct answer and immediately check up the facts. Unfortunately my memory does not retain facts that are rarely used.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

many countries insist on compulsary examination for ICC (DS standard)

Name some! There is no country requires ICCs for vistors and I doubt there are many/any that require ICC for their own citizens.

 

[capnsensible]

Hello to everyone who is interested in this subject.

Here is my humble advice.

The RYA (devil spawn) publish a small and very informative handbook. G27/04. Instructor Handbook. Cost is about a tenner. For all the speculators who wish to see exactly what is required and defined, do have a look.

It clearly lays out guidance and rules for how a course must be conducted.

Any Sea School that fails to meet the exacting standards of training and sea safety of their boats and Instructors at their annual review will be terminated. No bull.

Please appreciate that its the same for British Airways, Tesco's, Mike the local Mechanic, ad nauseum. We all have to deliver by the rules of our chosen trade.

CS

 

[Uricanejack]

I'm afraid you're missing my point. Yes, I know there are ways and means - but the course is not structured so as to make it a straightforward matter to do part of the course. Schools or clubs may or may not be able to adapt as you suggest, but there is no structural reason why they should do so. Surely if the courses were clearly organized in a fully modular manner it would make it more flexible? At present there is no CLEAR CUT way of doing it - you are in the hands of the school or tutor you approach. And many commercial schools have no interest in people who don't sign on for a week.

What I'd like to see is a way of doing a one day course on (say) IRPCS, which is certificated and can be counted towards an eventual award of YM or whatever. Award of YM would then be dependent on accumulating (probably within a set time) a certain set of base modules, along with assessment of skills not covered by examined modules. So, for example, I would take modules in weather and IRPCS, and would be assessed on navigation and sailing skills. I'd suggest that crew management ought to be an optional module, given (at the very least) it's very different application in a family cruiser, a racing yacht and a training boat.

I'm not suggesting much beyond the existing situation with skills like VHF, Diesel Engines and Sea Survival. AFAIR, all are essential to get some of the higher Yachtmaster qualifications, but are expected to be gained independently of the main course.

I think I get your point.
One of the apparent disadvantages of the RYA system. Is a requirment for the course to be completed as a whole unit. Instead of in seperate lessons or modules which may fit some peoples life style better.

 

[gregcope]

I did mine a few months ago with another candidate on my yacht.

It is a long day with someone watching you.

On boarding he said he would fail us on;

- Running aground
- Putting the boat in danger
- Failing to pickup a MOB

Off we go....

18hrs later He said he would be ok sending his young family out with me. I passed (secretly chuffed with that).

We did a safety brief, he asked me pointy questions that searched out what I might not know. You could do all the prep you liked, but a sharp examiner will catch you out.

I did a blind "anchor there" pointing to somewhere on the chart. The only obvious transits where observed by moored shipping.

I picked up my MOB (out of the blue whilst I was doing nav) first time. Twice. Picked up mooring under sail on second attempt.

I was concerned on entering a harbour on a falling (near low) tide. Having had the bief about "running aground" I told the examined I would turn around. He looked at me and said;

"If you where here with your mates, or family what would you do"

I said;

"go in. It is mud, we might get stuck and we would only be there for a few hours at most, and the weather is fine"

That was the only sticky point... Bar sailing over some very shallow water by mistake. I looked at the examiner and said "that was close...." he smiled....

I would recommend anyone do it. Yes the examiners will look for issues, but only from the weak. In 18 hours the examiners can make their own minds up.

 

[Sailfree]

Name some! There is no country requires ICCs for vistors and I doubt there are many/any that require ICC for their own citizens.

Toad you are such a troll!

Who said anything about visitors.

I know my director took an examination in Germany when he lived there to enable him to go sailing

3 yrs ago the charter company in Croatia issued us all an official looking document with photo to impress the locals whom the charter company stated that if we were stopped they expected a RYA issued ICC. It was after reporting this on here I was contacted by the RYA as they were concerned the charter company were issuing an "unofficial" RYA ICC - they were not.

You just never learn that however much you rant its what the locals enforce hence the fine administered by the French for not having an original registration document however much you protest I saw it and have shown the evidence to others


Many are reporting on here that they are being refused chartering a boat in Greece this year without an Icc but you never let the facts get in the way of your rants or paying a lost bet to charity.

You just rant on Troll

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

the RYA system is voluntary in the UK while many countries insist on compulsary examination for ICC (DS standard)

Name some!

Toad you are such a troll!
Who said anything about visitors.
I know my director took an examination in Germany when he lived there to enable him to go sailing
3 yrs ago the charter company in Croatia issued us all an official looking document with photo to impress the locals whom the charter company stated that if we were stopped they expected a RYA issued ICC. It was after reporting this on here I was contacted by the RYA as they were concerned the charter company were issuing an "unofficial" RYA ICC - they were not.
You just never learn that however much you rant its what the locals enforce hence the fine administered by the French for not having an original registration document however much you protest I saw it and have shown the evidence to others
Many are reporting on here that they are being refused chartering a boat in Greece this year without an Icc but you never let the facts get in the way of your rants or paying a lost bet to charity.
You just rant on Troll

Ducking the question. Wonder why?