Yarmouth Harbour Changes

benjenbav said:
Deleted User, I've taken the liberty of quoting your comments from one of the other threads because I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said and the comments with which timgriffin started this thread.

To be frank I was a bit put off contributing to this last night when I first read it. Still, so long as one can expect a warm welcome from the caulkies as one parts with one's hard-earned north-island banknotes, I suppose Yarmouth will stay popular.

I don't know if anyone else has read the report on modernising trust ports commissioned for HMG from PricewaterhouseCoopers? The development proposed for Yarmouth seems entirely in line with the generality of these proposals.

Will it put me off visiting Yarmouth? Probably not. But it won't seem quite the same. I would guess that the visitors' pontoons will be largely taken up with charter fleets which will probably help the pub trade but put off the more contemplative visitors who don't relish a boisterous lads' night out atmosphere.
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I suppose perhaps I'm remembering Yarmouth thru rose tinted specs but it became our fave destination because it had a bit of character and being forced to raft up against somebody you didn't know was very sociable. Also if the pile moorings go it won't be half as much fun watching the mooring antics although, thinking about it, backing into a pontoon space with the tide roaring thru the harbour won't be easy so there still should be some good sport:)
Was the PWC report the one that suggested there was a duty on harbour commissioners to maximise revenue from their ports? I read something like that somewhere and I think that's probably the driving force behind these proposals. I'm all for progress but I think these proposals will damage the character of the place
 
I'm actually wrong in referring to a PwC report; the one I am thinking of was published by the DfT but draws on a PwC study. Its themes are "Commercial Accountability and Target Level of Return" and the like.
 
Deleted User said:
I suppose perhaps I'm remembering Yarmouth thru rose tinted specs but it became our fave destination because it had a bit of character and being forced to raft up against somebody you didn't know was very sociable. Also if the pile moorings go it won't be half as much fun watching the mooring antics although, thinking about it, backing into a pontoon space with the tide roaring thru the harbour won't be easy so there still should be some good sport:)
Was the PWC report the one that suggested there was a duty on harbour commissioners to maximise revenue from their ports? I read something like that somewhere and I think that's probably the driving force behind these proposals. I'm all for progress but I think these proposals will damage the character of the place
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Yep. Actually I think it lost some appeal when Brin retired - there was a can do fellow. Would always find you spot even on a bank holiday.....It is a bit commercial now, which is a shame but I still like it. I use Hayles if I can as its more boaty and different. SWMBO says she prefers Cowes and of course Lymington must that said we have had some fab times rafted up in the harbour and mucking about with jet skis and whatever off the nearby beach
 
Deleted User said:
As for the YHC proposals, it is a revenue increasing exercise, pure and simple. An extra £250k per year is the target, I believe. I don't accept for one moment that YHC would be making these changes based only visitor surveys.
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Two things here. Yarmouth Harbour is a commercial business like any other business. I think you'll find that most businesses try to increase their revenue year on year - its called growth. YHC does not have shareholders to pay, so any additional revenue stays in the business - More revenue = better facilities which benefit customers.

In this case, its customers are asking for walk ashore facilities - so YHC is providing them and financing the development from increased costs. The added benefit is that this will reduce dependency on one single large source of revenue - namely Wightlink and result in a better balanced business.

Times change - and successful businesses adapt and change with them. Olde Worlde charm doesn't pay the bills - and its not what people say they want. Simple as that.

I maintain my point - if people don't like Yarmouth prices or the way things are run - they have a choice. If you don't like a restaurant, you don't keep going back there and moaning about the prices and the food - you simply go elsewhere - whats wrong with that?

What I take issue with is people who keep coming here and moaning about it.
 
We have visited Yarmouth four times this year and stayed on the piles ... well pontoons actually ... just not walk ashore ones.

I have never been asked to complete a survey.

What were the results? What percentage of people out on the piles voted for more pontoons?

We simply won't come if it's walk ashore only.

Who loses?

Well, we do ... we like Yarmouth.

You do ... no income from us, and others like us.

The town does ... but I don't suppose that figures in your calculations.
 
Bav34 said:
We simply won't come if it's walk ashore only.

Who loses? Well, we do ... we like Yarmouth. You do ... no income from us, and others like us. The town does ... but I don't suppose that figures in your calculations.
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All of the facts can be found here http://www.yarmouth-harbour.co.uk/news.php

As for not thinking of the town - YHC ARE the town. Local people ELECTED to represent local interests, many of whom run local businesses - so why would the town not figure in the calcualtions?
 
Bav34 said:
...I have never been asked to complete a survey.

What were the results? What percentage of people out on the piles voted for more pontoons?...
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Many answers here:

http://www.yarmouth-harbour.co.uk/media/uploads/1258104642_board_no.2_proof_v2.pdf

I bet you the harbour still fills up and if anything people spend more money - a lot easier to nip off for a drink or back to the shop for that forgotten item when you don't have to jump in the dinghy or pay for the water taxi. I don't think you will find many local businesses opposing the scheme.
 
If the ''72% of visitors stated that they would always use
a walkashore berth if it was available'' were a fair representation i.e. not just people who were already ON a walkashore pontoon then you're obviously right.

Being on the piles has NEVER influenced my spending habits ... we either get the taxi or row ashore.

This year we have spent (thanks to the weekday discount) £44 on mooring in Yarmouth.

Oh, and an average of £50 a visit in the pubs and shops ... which they won't see again.

Never mind ... the people who think that's it's worth '£30' a night, plus leccy, plus showers will be happy.
 
I've found this very interesting this afternoon. As a newish boater in the Solent, we have yet to visit Yarmouth. One of the main reasons for not visiting is we have an all electric boat and the wife is having none of 'we might not get a fully serviced pontoon'. So when I read about the proposed changes I must admit, whilst I can understand others thinking Yarmouth would loose some of it's charm's, it would certainly attract my family (and money) with walk a shore pontoons, so I have no doubt it will benifit the whole town in the long run.

BUT....and here's my problem. All us gentlemen and ladies on this forum understand business, and we all know that whilst we find some customers to our business's can sometimes be a pain in the arse, one of the best way of keeping them is not tell them 'well if you don't like it don't come'.....even if thats what we feel!!!!!

This reccession has taught me to vote with my feet if I don't like a companies attitude, because somebody elsewhere will bend of backwards to give me the service I want and value my money (which at the moment is very hard earnt)....After reading the veiws of YHC I'm very tempted not to bring my money to Yarmouth and spend it with people who don't care if I come or not.........So I'm not moaning, just telling it how I see it.


Regards Paul.
 
tony345 said:
Two things here. Yarmouth Harbour is a commercial business like any other business. I think you'll find that most businesses try to increase their revenue year on year - its called growth. YHC does not have shareholders to pay, so any additional revenue stays in the business - More revenue = better facilities which benefit customers.

In this case, its customers are asking for walk ashore facilities - so YHC is providing them and financing the development from increased costs. The added benefit is that this will reduce dependency on one single large source of revenue - namely Wightlink and result in a better balanced business.

Times change - and successful businesses adapt and change with them. Olde Worlde charm doesn't pay the bills - and its not what people say they want. Simple as that.

I maintain my point - if people don't like Yarmouth prices or the way things are run - they have a choice. If you don't like a restaurant, you don't keep going back there and moaning about the prices and the food - you simply go elsewhere - whats wrong with that?

What I take issue with is people who keep coming here and moaning about it.
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Ho, ho. Some survey? You asked 100% of your resident bertholders whether they wanted walk ashore berths and less than half (43%) said they did. Why have you ignored the wishes of the majority here? You only asked a total of 151 visitors whether they did and it seems 61% said they did but that is by no means a representative survey. I bet you get more than 100 boats in the harbour on a single Saturday bight in the summer. A statistician would laugh at your visitor survey
Nothing here convinces me that this is not just a straight commercial decision for the benefit of YHC only. Nothing wrong with that but I just wish you'd have the honesty to say so. As for your comments, I still think your attitude stinks. If I told some of my customers that if they didn't like it, they could go to a competitor, I'd soon be out of business
 
Deleted User said:
Ho, ho. Some survey? You asked 100% of your resident bertholders whether they wanted walk ashore berths and less than half (43%) said they did. Why have you ignored the wishes of the majority here? You only asked a total of 151 visitors whether they did and it seems 61% said they did but that is by no means a representative survey. I bet you get more than 100 boats in the harbour on a single Saturday bight in the summer. A statistician would laugh at your visitor survey
Nothing here convinces me that this is not just a straight commercial decision for the benefit of YHC only. Nothing wrong with that but I just wish you'd have the honesty to say so. As for your comments, I still think your attitude stinks. If I told some of my customers that if they didn't like it, they could go to a competitor, I'd soon be out of business
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This sounds remarkedly similar to the customer relations philosphy of Gerald Ratner, remember him?

I'm with L'escargot though, the harbour will still fill up, but with a different cross section of people like school and corporate boats and quite probably they will be the ones that do spend most in the pubs and restaurants.

Personally I wouldn't go there again now after knowing how welcome we are, even if they keep it as is. My money is hard earned and there are plenty of places where we are genuinely welcomed and not scorned or seen as simply a cash dispenser.

We've been visiting Yarmouth regularly for nearly 40 years, nice to know how they think now.
 
Robin said:
This sounds remarkedly similar to the customer relations philosphy of Gerald Ratner, remember him?

I'm with L'escargot though, the harbour will still fill up, but with a different cross section of people like school and corporate boats and quite probably they will be the ones that do spend most in the pubs and restaurants.

Personally I wouldn't go there again now after knowing how welcome we are, even if they keep it as is. My money is hard earned and there are plenty of places where we are genuinely welcomed and not scorned or seen as simply a cash dispenser.

We've been visiting Yarmouth regularly for nearly 40 years, nice to know how they think now.
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Dear old Gerald. To be fair he just said his products were ****, he didn't tell his customers to buy their **** elsewhere, only, of course, after he said what he said, they did just that!
 
Robin said:
This sounds remarkedly similar to the customer relations philosphy of Gerald Ratner, remember him?...Personally I wouldn't go there again now after knowing how welcome we are, even if they keep it as is...
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I think a number of people are assuming that tony345 is a representative of the harbour authority, I don't know that he is. I get the impression that he is a local harbour user. I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong.

The rest of this post isn't directed specifically at you Robin.

Although tony345's could perhaps be called blunt, I have also been guilty of a similar attitude to visitors to Cowes - there does sometimes seem to be an attitude from people visiting from the mainland which grates on the people who live here - having crossed the Solent Ocean some people almost seem to be saying "we're bringing our money to your little island - you should be grateful...". It isn't like that anymore, the island is a county, has it's own economy and most of the money goes to national/international businesses.

No one would dream of going into a Portsmouth Harbour Marina and saying "The people of Gosport/Portsmouth should be grateful for us spending our money in their shops" or "Haslar Marina shouldn't have put in those pontoons, they should put the piles and buoys back in Haslar Lake". I don't understand why they do it here.

By all means come over and enjoy the place but the island is moving on the same as everywhere else and at the end of the day is only responding to demand. I am sure people objected when pontoons, the non walk ashores, were put in the harbour but they still filled up before the pile berths.

There are always going to be some people who don't like the change and move on but there are probably twice as many who will be attracted by the change and then newcomers who don't even know what it used to be like. I don't think Yarmouth will ever have to take out the walkashores because people stop coming.
 
Wow!!! I nearly bit my own tongue out after my reply to 345, but I see I have made a point and have the back up from nearly everyone that has replied.

As for 345 reply to "leave it" it didnt stop anyone else airing there views did it, as your avatar is empty and mine is full, how about owning up to who you are, as you obviously think your right , im sure your new pontoons wil be overflowing next year, still theres always Harold Hayles moorings if you turn up at the right time.
 
l'escargot said:
I think a number of people are assuming that tony345 is a representative of the harbour authority, I don't know that he is. I get the impression that he is a local harbour user. I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong.

The rest of this post isn't directed specifically at you Robin.

Although tony345's could perhaps be called blunt, I have also been guilty of a similar attitude to visitors to Cowes - there does sometimes seem to be an attitude from people visiting from the mainland which grates on the people who live here - having crossed the Solent Ocean some people almost seem to be saying "we're bringing our money to your little island - you should be grateful...". It isn't like that anymore, the island is a county, has it's own economy and most of the money goes to national/international businesses.

No one would dream of going into a Portsmouth Harbour Marina and saying "The people of Gosport/Portsmouth should be grateful for us spending our money in their shops" or "Haslar Marina shouldn't have put in those pontoons, they should put the piles and buoys back in Haslar Lake". I don't understand why they do it here.

By all means come over and enjoy the place but the island is moving on the same as everywhere else and at the end of the day is only responding to demand. I am sure people objected when pontoons, the non walk ashores, were put in the harbour but they still filled up before the pile berths.

There are always going to be some people who don't like the change and move on but there are probably twice as many who will be attracted by the change and then newcomers who don't even know what it used to be like. I don't think Yarmouth will ever have to take out the walkashores because people stop coming.
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Well as I've said, I don't think the harbour will empty at all, but I do think that the cross section of clientelle will undoubtedly change.

I don't understand the argument that we expect townspeople anywhere to be grateful to us for spending our money with them. The thinking is quite simple in my mind wherever I am, I work on the basis of 'me customer you/they supplier'. As customer I expect to be treated fairly and with respect, in turn I will almost certainly be a good and a repeat customer. If however I'm made to feel like an incomer, grockle, emmet or whatever to be pickpocketed then I will most certainly react negatively and stay away. We live in Poole and have a bigger tourist throughput than Yarmouth could ever dream of but I don't know anyone here that thinks people coming here are doing us any favours with their presence and their wallets. In business I'm a supplier too and even if I thought it I certainly wouldn't dream of telling a customer to take it or leave it, not if I expected repeat business anyway!
 
I havent been to Yarmouth in many years, many many years, but still remember it with fondness.
This episode, sounds a bit like the south coast marinas old adage "squeeze them until the pips squeak". It seems the pips are squeaking, but that wont change a thing, as has been said the harbour will still be packed!
Bracelonas' port vell have done the same thing and people are leaving, but that suits them, they want to turn it into an exclusive superyacht marina, revenue driven, you dont need services for superyachts, they bring them with them, good luck to them, I wont be there.
 
Yarmouth Harbour Redevelopement

As a regular user of this lovely harbour for the last 40 odd years, I am horrified to see the plans for this latest poposed developement. Now I do understand that things have to move on, but surely not by turning this harbour into yet another soul-less marina. If this is allowed to go ahead as proposed it will totally change the character of both the harbour and more importantly the town (these both being the reason for boatingpeople wanting to go there ). The layout of berths in even quiet conditions will at least be a challenge to experieced boaters, Lord knows how the less able will cope. It has been suggested in this forum that the driving force has come from Trust ports being told to maximise their revenue, surely , someone has the common sense to differentiate between ports and that Yarmouth is not in the same league as say Dover. If this all goes ahead, there will be no relatively cheap moorings for visitors, or indeed, local mooring holders in the main harbour.This has to be a form of FISCAL CLEANSING. I would just for the record like to point out that Yarmouth Harbour Commissioners are NOT elected by the townspeople, One quarter is made byCo- Opted members ( ie, Yarmouth town council ) the remainder are SELF ELECTED and as a result Untouchable and a law to themelves.
 
a meaningless exercise

tony345 said:
All of the facts can be found here http://www.yarmouth-harbour.co.uk/news.php

As for not thinking of the town - YHC ARE the town. Local people ELECTED to represent local interests, many of whom run local businesses - so why would the town not figure in the calcualtions?
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Lies - Dam Lies - and statistics

At the end of the day, the commissioners will produce what ever results they like in order to justify their plans.

If visitors continue you coming they will claim to have got it right. If not, they are free to walk away from their posts without a care in the world

rant over
 
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