Yamaha 5HP converting for sailing dayboat use!

The main problem is causing spark plug failure, can cause valve problems also. Drain the carb prior to storage as manufacturer states. If you religiously drain e10 is perfectly fine.
 
Steve65 said:
The main problem is causing spark plug failure, can cause valve problems also. Drain the carb prior to storage as manufacturer states. If you religiously drain e10 is perfectly fine.
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Well I have searched the internet for problems with Aspen fuel and cannot find any apart from a post you made two years ago. You work on outboard engines and mentioned a couple of years ago you thought two engines that were brought in had spark plug failure as they both ran on Aspen fuel but then posted this.
"A couple of things i noticed whilst repairing the engines...the carbs had not been drained since last usage ( a couple of months) once the plugs were changed the engines started easily. Pump fuel would not have started that easily. I did have to clean the carb on one of the engines but this engine was seldom used and could have possibly had a partial jet blockage for some time".
I'm not having a go but this topic is really concerning for many of us. Most find pump fuel is what is causing the gumming up of course, it's well documented and experienced by many in lawn mowers, motorbikes, classic cars with carbs etc. ASpen fuel has so much good feedback from professional gardeners, DIY gardeners and sailers in their machinery and engines... but you say it can cause valve problems. Is this something you definitely know about, what valve problems and how? I cannot find anything on the web. At the moment I will carry on using Aspen. My lawn mower spark plug is four years old on Aspen and for once starts on the button after winter.
 
I dont really know what Im talking about really.. I do repair 4 stroke every day but Im guessing my success is down to good luck
Actually last week I had in a 2.5 hp Mercury /Tohatsu. Degradation of valve seats, needle valve tips and a plug breaking down.
How did i know it had been run on Aspen.....The tank was still full.
If it was good for the engine it would be recommended by manufacturers.
In regard to your mower , a mower carb emissions are higher than an outboard, more fuel into the cylinder meaning a cooler burn with Aspen so the coatings of the plugs damage less easy .
The same principles go for older petrol in mowers
 
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Outboards have the good fortune that you can close the fuel valve and let engine stop when carb empties. That sorts out near all starting problems of 'forecourt gasoline'.

Most Garden machinery has no fuel valve ...... and relies on you stopping the motor.

Aspen fuel ........ never tested it or seen it .... only ever heard about it from others mentioning it. Personally with good husbandry of gear - I cannot see the point of it. I have two Lawn Tractors .... 2 petrol strimmers .... 2 chainsaws ..... 3kw generator .... 10HP powered mini excavator ..... a 20HP 2str Mariner ... 18HP 2 str Evinrude .. 3HP 2str Johnson .. 3HP 2str Mariner ... 4.5HP Johnson and a number of gasoline model airplane engines : all of them run on 'forecourt' 95 Octane E10 - which has been E10 for years ... and all are fine.
Yes - it is true that various garden stuff can have problems but it is actually mainly due to the blending of the fuel - not as some claim due to the Ethanol. Gasoline today is a blended product using many components .. we've used anything up to 13 different components to get the final spec. The days of 'true' gasoline ended many years ago.
 
No I see you hadn't heard of Aspen Fuel a couple of years ago Refueler... been out for a few years now, widely used by professionals. Your poor mix is the cause of many non starting motors... Aspen Totally prevents this problem. The trouble with modern ethanol fuels is not just that the content attracts a high degree of moisture/water content in a little as two weeks, enough to cause some engine problems but it can also completely separate in that time... plenty on this if you Google. The worse thing is that it can eat your old fuel lines, carburettors etc. Many that run older cars, bikes have endured this misery, bits of fuel line in the carbs and the idle jets eaten out. Modern gear can withstand it so far but they are talking about putting in an even higher level of water in E15 soon ?It's muck... my 2020 motorbike runs on E5 OK but put in E10 and it clatters up hill being a parallel twin. It was cheaper in Norway which is the only reason I put it in... many similar experiences expressed across the board.
 
Zagato said:
No I see you hadn't heard of Aspen Fuel a couple of years ago Refueler... been out for a few years now, widely used by professionals. Your poor mix is the cause of many non starting motors... Aspen Totally prevents this problem. The trouble with modern ethanol fuels is not just that the content attracts a high degree of moisture/water content in a little as two weeks, enough to cause some engine problems but it can also completely separate in that time... plenty on this if you Google. The worse thing is that it can eat your old fuel lines, carburettors etc. Many that run older cars, bikes have endured this misery, bits of fuel line in the carbs and the idle jets eaten out. Modern gear can withstand it so far but they are talking about putting in an even higher level of water in E15 soon ?It's muck... my 2020 motorbike runs on E5 OK but put in E10 and it clatters up hill being a parallel twin. It was cheaper in Norway which is the only reason I put it in... many similar experiences expressed across the board.
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Thank you for your kind support .... :rolleyes:

Aspen fuel is based on Alkylate - which in fact is a large constituent of forecourt gasoline blend. I have done a bit research since a few years ago to see what the fuss was about. So whats new ?

Google and many non industry people have a lot to answer for. Been to Brazil lately ? if you want to talk about Ethanol / Alcohol gasoline .... suggest you take a look.
Idiots across the 'pond' in USA have been moaning about Ethanol ... ignoring the fact that it was being used long before it became a subject for them.
We could of course go back to the older components that poisoned ground waters ... were carcinogenic ... caused respiratory illnesses ... shall I go on ?
Do you understand that the Terms E and B .. are based on EU / Other Trade labelling ... that in fact long before those labels were applied - that Bio based components were already in use - not universally - but were available ? You just didn't know they were - as no-one was required to disclose ...
As to 'my mix' ... the reason for blending is actually market demands - not that Oil Traders want to. Plus of course Govt taxing the hell out of sales. Traders would be happy to forego the expense of bench testing and people such as myself having to control the blending. A huge amount of work and development goes into fuel blending ... its not just a matter of throwing a few bits and bobs together to arrive at xx octane ...

Like any item ... if it gets repeated enough - it becomes fact regardless of whether it is or not.
 
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?wondered what you meant about "your support" I whole heartedly apologise. It is meant to say 'your right poor mix' not "your poor mix". Oops! So yes agree poor mix, sticking floats, perished pipes, vent seals etc, not keeping the internal tank more than 1/4 full on small outboards to help carb do its thing, shit in the system and filters not cleaned, old dirty plugs, etc etc is the main cause of problems not the fuel.
I am using E5 in my old Yamaha bike, no problem with it so far after two years ?
 
Steve65 said:
I havent much experience with saildrive outboards compared to conventional. What I do have lots of experience of is repairing outboards that have been run on Aspen.
Irrespective of what manufacturers say it is no goid to use regularly on modern 4 strokes
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Why?
 
Beneteau381 said:
Aspen doesn’t contain alcohol, that’s the point. Aspen 2 | Aspen 4 | Premixed Petrol | Aspen Fuel
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Take note that Aspen specifically state LAND based 2st engines for their Aspen2 ..... that is AIR cooled engines. Its not the gasoline that's problem there ... its the the 2T used in the Pre-Mix. It is not spec'd for water cooled outboards.

But anyway - Alkylate is used in ALL gasoline blends and Alkylate is a general term that covers many different forms .....
 
Refueler said:
Take note that Aspen specifically state LAND based 2st engines for their Aspen2 ..... that is AIR cooled engines. Its not the gasoline that's problem there ... its the the 2T used in the Pre-Mix. It is not spec'd for water cooled outboards.

But anyway - Alkylate is used in ALL gasoline blends and Alkylate is a general term that covers many different forms .....
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I used he Aspen link to show no alcohol in Aspen, the two stroke blurb is irrelevant. Try the link now
“Aspen does not contain ethanol” very specific
 
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Refueler said:
Yes - but remember this is an open forum with all levels of people reading. The fact also is that your link goes directly FIRST to Aspen2 and only after scrolling down to Aspen4 etc.
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Any way, just stating a product is no good, it burns spark plugs, that’s a “lazy” response from an expert. Do as we did when we were playing with high performance motorbikes, put a harder plug in! Not rocket science, Spark Plug Basics - NGK Spark Plugs
 
Beneteau381 said:
Any way, just stating a product is no good, it burns spark plugs, that’s a “lazy” response from an expert. Do as we did when we were playing with high performance motorbikes, put a harder plug in! Not rocket science, Spark Plug Basics - NGK Spark Plugs
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As to other guys post about spark plugs ...... that's his opinion - me ? Maybe .. Maybe not ...

All I know is that I don't need or use Aspen .....
 
We've had e10 in the US for over 20 years, and mandated in most areas since 2003. Unless you have a pre-ethanol motor, life is fine and most of the myths are just myths. I have not drained a carb in 30 years.
  • Close the vent on the tank when not in use. Then it won't draw water.
  • It does not "gel" if it is dry because it is actually a better gum solvent than plain gas. What you are seeing is typically aluminum corrosion, so...
  • Use an anti-corrosion additive. Biobor EB and Stabil 360 Marine are two ofthe best. Most are snake oil.
1-2 pulls is all I need. I have not worked on a carb in 20 years, other than new-to-me motors that other people got frustrated with. I have one now I got for $100 only a year old. The owner got frustrated. I cleaned the carb, started closing the vent and adding Biobor EB to the gas, and for the past 4 years it's perhaps the best motor I have every had (Tahatsu 4 hp 4-stroke).

It works fine in cars (sealed gas tanks--no water). You can easily learn to live with it. Aspen and non-ethanol gas are a waste of effort and money if you just practice good fuel mamagment.
 
I had problems with all my small engines, took the mower to local agent who said:- use E5 petrol and Honda fuel stabiliser - also that Aspen was NOT recommended... Changed to E5, added Honda additive(always used previously), all engines now start easily - Honda 2.3; Honda lawnmower (22yrs old);2T strimmer and 2T small generator.
 
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