Graham_Wright
Well-Known Member
I fancy having a crack at this.
Anyone able to recommend an on-line theory course prior to the practical?
Anyone able to recommend an on-line theory course prior to the practical?
Yachtmaster Ocean
- Thread starter Graham_Wright
- Start date
davethedog
Well-Known Member
Navathome.com have been good in the past, I have done the theory with them and found it a good way to learn ready for the practical.
Hacker
Well-Known Member
+1 for Navathome
SailingEd
Active Member
did mine with these guys;
RYA Day Skipper Theory Online, RYA Coastal / Yachtmaster Online Theory, RYA SRC / VHF, RYA Essential Navigation, PPR | RYA Sailing Course Online
flexible timeline to learn and all the online material easy to access on every platform imaginable so made it easy to learn on the go (ipad / phone / laptop etc) plus you could just skip to the test your knowledge section if you knew the topic and providing you passed then that module was complete without teaching you how to suck eggs so to speak.
(it was about ~5 years ago now though so might have changed format)
not done any theory with anyone else so cant comment but i passed and went onto pass my practical YM exam 6 months after it too
RYA Day Skipper Theory Online, RYA Coastal / Yachtmaster Online Theory, RYA SRC / VHF, RYA Essential Navigation, PPR | RYA Sailing Course Online
flexible timeline to learn and all the online material easy to access on every platform imaginable so made it easy to learn on the go (ipad / phone / laptop etc) plus you could just skip to the test your knowledge section if you knew the topic and providing you passed then that module was complete without teaching you how to suck eggs so to speak.
(it was about ~5 years ago now though so might have changed format)
not done any theory with anyone else so cant comment but i passed and went onto pass my practical YM exam 6 months after it too
Graham_Wright
Well-Known Member
But not Ocean it seems.
KompetentKrew
Well-Known Member
Are you sure that's a separate theory course?
I think it's covered by the coastal / yachtmaster theory course.
KompetentKrew
Well-Known Member
Having had the dubious pleasure of doing both, I thoroughly recommend Skippers Online (formerly known as Kipper Sailing) over Navathome.
Clearly both are qualified instructors, but Navathome comes across like a retired computer programmer decided to create a website, but he doesn't have any experience of user interface design and everything is a bit cludgy and clumsy. You can't navigate through the answer fields using your tab key, and they took exception when I complained about it. When I did it a couple of years ago they were still using flash animations, and the site had to be whitelisted in Safari.
Skippers Online is, in contrast, much better presented - he uses an off-the-shelf online education platform and has concentrated on the quality of the tutorials. The lessons are displayed larger and much clearer, with consistent style and better narration. An advantage of the 3rd-party platform is that you can download an app and download the lessons to your phone or tablet for offline viewing.
They both have a free trial of the first lesson, so try them for yourself and see the difference in quality.
You will also find a discount if you google "skippers online discount code".
Clearly both are qualified instructors, but Navathome comes across like a retired computer programmer decided to create a website, but he doesn't have any experience of user interface design and everything is a bit cludgy and clumsy. You can't navigate through the answer fields using your tab key, and they took exception when I complained about it. When I did it a couple of years ago they were still using flash animations, and the site had to be whitelisted in Safari.
Skippers Online is, in contrast, much better presented - he uses an off-the-shelf online education platform and has concentrated on the quality of the tutorials. The lessons are displayed larger and much clearer, with consistent style and better narration. An advantage of the 3rd-party platform is that you can download an app and download the lessons to your phone or tablet for offline viewing.
They both have a free trial of the first lesson, so try them for yourself and see the difference in quality.
You will also find a discount if you google "skippers online discount code".
Graham_Wright
Well-Known Member
Sextant?
Praxinoscope
Well-Known Member
There are several areas covered in the YM Ocean theory that aren’t included in the YM theory, as Graham_Wright indicates Sextant, passage planning fr long passages, great circle sailing and various additional meteorological aspects, such as TRS
laika
Well-Known Member
With the caveat that I did my ocean theory a little over a decade ago (in a classroom...) and the syllabus may have changed although it looks similar (Yachtmaster Ocean Theory Syllabus | RYA Training Courses)
I might suggest that YMO theory lends itself less well to remote learning than the other theory courses and you may be better off with either just a book or full-on classroom training. You don't need the theory certificate for the practical so the "book" option is valid. Most of the theory is astro. That which wasn't, the classroom tuition (and I would assume online) really added nothing to what I could have read in a book. I would emphasise that in some areas (watchkeeping, provisioning) "theory" is actually just some starting suggestions and something you can only really learn through doing (or being around to observe the effects when others do).
The RYA tables-based sight reduction is pretty straight forward. I'm not a fan of cunliffe's writing style and don't have his latest tome on the subject but his celestial nav book from the noughties was very straightforward to follow with good exercises and answers. I don't think the classroom exercises added a lot on top of that. Where classroom training won out was in the hands-on demonstration of sextant use and the ability to try out a couple of sextants. You wouldn't get the physical aspect with remote learning.
I definitely see the value of online theory courses for DS and YM but I'm not so sure about Ocean. My advice would be buy a book (I have no experience of cunliffe's ocean skipper book, his celestial nav book (edition prior to current) was was succinct and easy to follow, I wasn't a fan of the langley-price and ouvry one), read it and see if it makes sense. If it does, acquire a sextant, play with it on the beach or on your boat and forget about the online course: I believe it just means you'd get asked a few more questions in your ocean verbal exam. If it all seems gobbledygook after reading the book, then decide whether you want classroom or online tuition.
I might suggest that YMO theory lends itself less well to remote learning than the other theory courses and you may be better off with either just a book or full-on classroom training. You don't need the theory certificate for the practical so the "book" option is valid. Most of the theory is astro. That which wasn't, the classroom tuition (and I would assume online) really added nothing to what I could have read in a book. I would emphasise that in some areas (watchkeeping, provisioning) "theory" is actually just some starting suggestions and something you can only really learn through doing (or being around to observe the effects when others do).
The RYA tables-based sight reduction is pretty straight forward. I'm not a fan of cunliffe's writing style and don't have his latest tome on the subject but his celestial nav book from the noughties was very straightforward to follow with good exercises and answers. I don't think the classroom exercises added a lot on top of that. Where classroom training won out was in the hands-on demonstration of sextant use and the ability to try out a couple of sextants. You wouldn't get the physical aspect with remote learning.
I definitely see the value of online theory courses for DS and YM but I'm not so sure about Ocean. My advice would be buy a book (I have no experience of cunliffe's ocean skipper book, his celestial nav book (edition prior to current) was was succinct and easy to follow, I wasn't a fan of the langley-price and ouvry one), read it and see if it makes sense. If it does, acquire a sextant, play with it on the beach or on your boat and forget about the online course: I believe it just means you'd get asked a few more questions in your ocean verbal exam. If it all seems gobbledygook after reading the book, then decide whether you want classroom or online tuition.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
Some pretty good advice, @laika
I liked the Langley-Price and Ouvry text book, personally. Plenty of books have been written on the subject so there’s almost certainly one to suit the readers thought process. I reckon that there are two types of recreational sailors wishing to learn the sight reduction process, those who want to follow a template and those who don’t.
Here’s a link to the exam assessment. It says that there will be written element but holders of the Shorebased course completion certificate are exempt from that part.
RYA Yachtmaster Ocean Exam
I liked the Langley-Price and Ouvry text book, personally. Plenty of books have been written on the subject so there’s almost certainly one to suit the readers thought process. I reckon that there are two types of recreational sailors wishing to learn the sight reduction process, those who want to follow a template and those who don’t.
Here’s a link to the exam assessment. It says that there will be written element but holders of the Shorebased course completion certificate are exempt from that part.
RYA Yachtmaster Ocean Exam
rotrax
Well-Known Member
First Mate and I used the Langley-Price and Ouvry book.
First class and easy to check progress by testing yourself with the exercises.
Recomended, and far cheaper than an online course.
First class and easy to check progress by testing yourself with the exercises.
Recomended, and far cheaper than an online course.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
I’m glad to read that you both like that text, @rotrax
I did the Shorebased course about 15 years ago, one to one with a retired master mariner over 5 consecutive days. Intensive learning was a bit mind blowing and I felt the need to repeat the course at a more leisurely pace using a separate text book. I bought a few but found that the Adlard Coles Ocean Yachtmaster gave me detailed explanations that I sought, sufficient for the “penny to drop”
I’m very biased but I would recommend face to face instruction versus interweb learning for this course (but not as a 5-day intensive). I don’t think that the sight reduction process is particularly difficult but a good instructor should be able to ease the student into it while avoiding the commonly made pitfalls. Simple two-way communication goes a long way.
All credit to those who pick it up from a text book alone….respect ?
I did the Shorebased course about 15 years ago, one to one with a retired master mariner over 5 consecutive days. Intensive learning was a bit mind blowing and I felt the need to repeat the course at a more leisurely pace using a separate text book. I bought a few but found that the Adlard Coles Ocean Yachtmaster gave me detailed explanations that I sought, sufficient for the “penny to drop”
I’m very biased but I would recommend face to face instruction versus interweb learning for this course (but not as a 5-day intensive). I don’t think that the sight reduction process is particularly difficult but a good instructor should be able to ease the student into it while avoiding the commonly made pitfalls. Simple two-way communication goes a long way.
All credit to those who pick it up from a text book alone….respect ?
MINESAPINT2
Well-Known Member
This is something I have taken an interest in over the years. I have Tom Cunliffe Celestial navigation and Mary Blewitt.
If anyone wishing to learn has Tom Cunliffe you will see it has daily pages from The Nautical Almanac for 1, 2 and 3rd May as well as Increments and Corrections overleaf.
Using these pages perhaps you could determine the Greenwich Hour Angle of Aries. May 1st at 05h 14m 18s GMT with ZERO watch error.
This will introduce you to using the daily pages and Increments and Corrections.
Easy to make up lots of questions providing we have the same books.
Mike
If anyone wishing to learn has Tom Cunliffe you will see it has daily pages from The Nautical Almanac for 1, 2 and 3rd May as well as Increments and Corrections overleaf.
Using these pages perhaps you could determine the Greenwich Hour Angle of Aries. May 1st at 05h 14m 18s GMT with ZERO watch error.
This will introduce you to using the daily pages and Increments and Corrections.
Easy to make up lots of questions providing we have the same books.
Mike
MINESAPINT2
Well-Known Member
OK no takers. I thought a thread on celestial navigation would serve to refresh some of our memories while helping those who are just starting.
So to the question above. Re pages 14, 15 and 16 in Cunliffe.
As the daily pages are GMT (UTC) and our time zone is GMT and there are no watch errors we can take our time of 0514 and 18 seconds straight to the daily pages.
GHA Aries for 1st May 0500 is 293 50.0
So now the increments (14 minutes and 18 seconds) page 16
Look down the 14m column to 18s then across to the Aries column and read off 3 35.1
GHA Aries 293 50.0 + 3 35.1 = 297 degrees 25.1 minutes
Mike
So to the question above. Re pages 14, 15 and 16 in Cunliffe.
As the daily pages are GMT (UTC) and our time zone is GMT and there are no watch errors we can take our time of 0514 and 18 seconds straight to the daily pages.
GHA Aries for 1st May 0500 is 293 50.0
So now the increments (14 minutes and 18 seconds) page 16
Look down the 14m column to 18s then across to the Aries column and read off 3 35.1
GHA Aries 293 50.0 + 3 35.1 = 297 degrees 25.1 minutes
Mike
Skylark
Well-Known Member
I’m wondering why you’re using Aries in your example? I imagine that >95% of all sights taken by recreational sailors will be of the sun. The passage of the sun is a fairly simple concept to grasp. Aries plus Sidereal Hour Angle of a selected star is a more difficult concept and quite a long way into the learning syllabus.
It’s always fun and enjoyable to discuss celestial navigation.
It’s always fun and enjoyable to discuss celestial navigation.
Last edited:
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
I was lucky to have a course available at a local college. Learning with others and a live teacher is much preferable to sitting on your own, hunched over a laptop IMHO. It's much more sociable and we used to go for a pint afterwards. I also made a couple of good friends. It was sometimes a bit of a ball ache turning out on a snowy winter evening but on the whole very worthwhile.
Praxinoscope
Well-Known Member
As with ghostlymoron, I was lucky enough to do the on-shore course at evening classes, but they were held by The Little Ship Club , I was working in London at the time so it worked well for me. I think if a group course can be found it does seem to have advantages over the ‘loneliness of an on-line student’.
I eventually allowed my membership of LSC to lapse as my work took me away from the London area so not a member any more, but would certainly recomend looking for a club that stil does have such training in their programme.
I eventually allowed my membership of LSC to lapse as my work took me away from the London area so not a member any more, but would certainly recomend looking for a club that stil does have such training in their programme.
Wing Mark
Well-Known Member
I did YM Ocean theory a long time ago.
I did it in a 5 day week.
If you day job has a bit of maths and geometry in it, you could probably learn it from Cunliffe's book.
If you are not really a maths person and you are out of practice with the kind of thought process and way of working, it can be very opaque.
We were lucky to have a very good teacher.
The kind of teacher who can see who is not understanding things and find a way of getting through.
I've forgotten his name and I 'd expect he would be retired now. Interesting bloke, part of his day job had included teaching basic maths to certain prison inmates.
I've also forgotten most of the course content, there are lotos of names for funny little angles and correction factors.
Top tip is don't forget the exam also covers other 'ocean' stuff like revolving storms.
It's possible to mechanise the whole process and make it work without having any understanding whatsoever of how it works.
At one time you could do the course on the ferry to and from Bilbao IIRC.
I did it in a 5 day week.
If you day job has a bit of maths and geometry in it, you could probably learn it from Cunliffe's book.
If you are not really a maths person and you are out of practice with the kind of thought process and way of working, it can be very opaque.
We were lucky to have a very good teacher.
The kind of teacher who can see who is not understanding things and find a way of getting through.
I've forgotten his name and I 'd expect he would be retired now. Interesting bloke, part of his day job had included teaching basic maths to certain prison inmates.
I've also forgotten most of the course content, there are lotos of names for funny little angles and correction factors.
Top tip is don't forget the exam also covers other 'ocean' stuff like revolving storms.
It's possible to mechanise the whole process and make it work without having any understanding whatsoever of how it works.
At one time you could do the course on the ferry to and from Bilbao IIRC.
Graham_Wright
Well-Known Member
I did my Yachtmaster Offshore at Woodnorton (BBC training centre). At the end we were invited by one of the course members, to sample his sloe gin. He had unusual glasses that never seemed to empty. On my way home in my MG, I commented to my wife (gf at the time), "traffics busy tonight".
"There isn't any "she said.
I had read the cats eyes as on-coming head lights.
