Yacht Time Correction YTC rule

[seeSimon]

Sorry. Double post.

 

[seeSimon]

The current YTC system, as run by RORC for the RYA, does seem to be rather "coarse" in that it throws up some strange anomalies based on quite simple general arrangements...for which there seems to be no application of any moderation/common sense?

Eg Swallow Yachts use of water ballast systems result in very unfavourable numbers, for their BC23 in particular. They seem to rate the water ballast as if it was some sort of mini IMOCA, rather than a modern classic trailer sailer?

...and then there's the Django 7.7s (perhaps like mini pogos/JPKs and their "bilge keels"

All very nice boats!




I have a bulb keel, but it is on the end of a lifting centreboard (rather like a mini Bayesian?!?) The bottom of which is flat, the boat sitting on it when it dries out. But the boat is, imho, penalised as it is rated as for a fixed keel bulb.
RORC says "tough". "Go IRC"...

At least the RYA YTC is free...for now...

 

[Egret]

A year on, is YTC working to encourage a wider range of people to take part in club cruiser racing and give any boat a chance of winning on their day, or do you need an optimum boat to have a chance in a biggish club regatta race - in which case what boat in the 26 to 32 foot range (£10-15,000 range) seems to perform best against its handicap in YTC

 

[seeSimon]

A year on, is YTC working to encourage a wider range of people to take part in club cruiser racing and give any boat a chance of winning on their day, or do you need an optimum boat to have a chance in a biggish club regatta race - in which case what boat in the 26 to 32 foot range (£10-15,000 range) seems to perform best against its handicap in YTC

Hereabouts (a small club fleet, with limited entry numbers, but multiple similar boats) , sadler 26/28 seem to do very well in tidal waters. With good helms they are hard to beat, boat_on_boat same tack upwind, even though my similarly sized lift keeler is rated much faster.

 

[awol]

All handicap systems have anomalies but I question the moral standards of anyone that buys and/or pimps a small cruiser with the sole aim of winning races. OD racing in some classes may be a bit of an arms race but there are still some with Corinthian mores.
As for YTC, West Highland Week used it last year and compared the results against the previous CYCA system. There was strong correlation in the results except for Class 8 where a Fulmar was rated slower under YTC than a CO32 and won the class (sour grapes? - qui, moi?). I'm glad to say both these boats (as were most of the class) were complete with the paraphenalia of cruising, feeding and sleeping their crews on board. One benefit for us was less silverware to store and then return for this season!

 

[st599]

We have used YTC for a couple of foreign races, but this year they've started asking for ORC Club certificates.

 

[PeterV]

I race a GK29 under YTC and find it a much more realistic handicap than theNHC we used to race under. However, it rates a boat on basic parameters, so if we were, for example, to change our roller furling Genoa for a series of laminate foresails of no larger size, our handicap would remain the same, as it’s only maximum sail area that’s rated.
So yes, you can optimise your boat to perform better, but this isn’t much different to any handicap system.
There are however some anomalies which don’t seem to be questioned. Last year I saw one Westerly Fulmar with a much slower rating than any of the others, and in looking at the boat data it had measured a much smaller mainsail. I doubly if this was the case, so it seems any owners obvious errors are accepted without question. This is potentially the only real shortcoming of the system.

 

[flaming]

As for YTC, West Highland Week used it last year and compared the results against the previous CYCA system. There was strong correlation in the results except for Class 8 where a Fulmar was rated slower under YTC than a CO32 and won the class (sour grapes? - qui, moi?).

There's no universe where a Fulmar is slower than a CO32, assuming both rated for a kite and with normal sail areas etc.

IRC thinks a Fulmar is about 20 points quicker. Which is quite a lot.

 

[oldbloke]

All handicap systems have anomalies but I question the moral standards of anyone that buys and/or pimps a small cruiser with the sole aim of winning races. OD racing in some classes may be a bit of an arms race but there are still some with Corinthian mores.
As for YTC, West Highland Week used it last year and compared the results against the previous CYCA system. There was strong correlation in the results except for Class 8 where a Fulmar was rated slower under YTC than a CO32 and won the class (sour grapes? - qui, moi?). I'm glad to say both these boats (as were most of the class) were complete with the paraphenalia of cruising, feeding and sleeping their crews on board. One benefit for us was less silverware to store and then return for this season!

I have spent a small fortune over the years trying to ensure that my boat ,even if not the helmsman, is competitive with the front of the fleet, and I don't think that that is in the slightest morally dubious. You could make a case that the ethos of your club/class is not to try too hard but unless that is very explicit it's difficult to judge.
Why should I give time to someone who sails a shed with a weedy bottom and bed sheets for sails. I have read of club's that have a £1000 Laser class where anyone has the right to buy your boat for £1000 thereby discouraging any tendency to an arms race, but there it is overt and explicit

 

[awol]

I have spent a small fortune over the years trying to ensure that my boat ,even if not the helmsman, is competitive with the front of the fleet, and I don't think that that is in the slightest morally dubious. You could make a case that the ethos of your club/class is not to try too hard but unless that is very explicit it's difficult to judge.
Why should I give time to someone who sails a shed with a weedy bottom and bed sheets for sails. I have read of club's that have a £1000 Laser class where anyone has the right to buy your boat for £1000 thereby discouraging any tendency to an arms race, but there it is overt and explicit

You misunderstand - just because the boats have creature comforts (and drink lockers) doesn't reduce the level of effort that the crews and skippers put into the racing. WHYW is peripatetic across 3 venues so leaving boxes on a pontoon doesn't work.
Surely even if you give time to "a shed with a weedy bottom and bed sheets for sails" you will beat it? YTC is not performance based.