tcm
...
mab = Manky Auld Boat, originally (very cruelly) coined by jimi on vhf when parahandy described his own boat outside yarmouth harbour. All monohuls are either MAB's or AWB's.
Yacht rescue in Mid-Atlantic
- Thread starter BurnitBlue
- Start date
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
Ah, you registered over 15 months ago - don't play the old 'being new to this forum' excuse with us !!
Anyway, it's a Manky Auld Boat - coined by a bunch of Scots on here referring to long-keelers, transom hung rudders, tan sails, indoor steering, etc, or anything which is not an AWB.
Anyway, it's a Manky Auld Boat - coined by a bunch of Scots on here referring to long-keelers, transom hung rudders, tan sails, indoor steering, etc, or anything which is not an AWB.
BurnitBlue
Well-Known Member
You win this one. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gifLooks like a bent shaft if Photodog is right about a Dufour classic having a spade rudder.
whipper_snapper
Well-Known Member
Re: underwater crowbar
And he is sometimes very strong - /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gifthis is Stuart a few years ago !! Glad he is OK, sad about the boat...
And he is sometimes very strong - /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gifthis is Stuart a few years ago !! Glad he is OK, sad about the boat...
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Re: underwater crowbar
wouldn't want to try it in anything above F2 personally!... it'd be quite a job cutting off with a hacksaw....
We do carry a bicycle helmet on board for the sole purpose of protecting ones noggin when in the oggin under the stern....
I'm still going for a bent shaft that has jammed itself solid in the various locating parts... its the only reason I can think of that would be beyond any emergency repair by any self competent DIYer...
wouldn't want to try it in anything above F2 personally!... it'd be quite a job cutting off with a hacksaw....
We do carry a bicycle helmet on board for the sole purpose of protecting ones noggin when in the oggin under the stern....
I'm still going for a bent shaft that has jammed itself solid in the various locating parts... its the only reason I can think of that would be beyond any emergency repair by any self competent DIYer...
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Re: underwater crowbar
I tend to think that the skippers options are pretty limited...
1) Going overboard to attempt a fix; non-starter I feel... swell, movement etc, create a unnaceptable risk of injury with a short handed crew.. Sawing through a 2 inch thick chunk of steel with a hacksaw is a non-starter..
2) Dropping the Rudder... whilst possible maybe in a marina... getting access to the steering parts, having the tools , etc, all are going to be difficult , but the biggest danger I feel would be as the rudder was dropping there would be a large increase in the lever forces on the rudder as it dropped away (In the seas) and this would be exerted on a reducing area of the rudder stock. such that once the stock was maybe 2/3rds of the way out the forces could be such to severaly damage the laminate of the hull... so instead of 2 inch round hole in the back of the boat, you may end up with a big chunk missing... And , is it really a good idea to put a hole in the bottom of aboat that is , whilst disabled, not shipping water?? Especially when there is no possibility of rescue... even if the rudder is dropped out without causing more damage... you still have a hole were before you did not.
No, I think he did about the right thing... keep the boat afloat, try to fix it , and wait until he drifts closer to the Islands.... in the meantime the boat aint sinking, and no ones injured.
I tend to think that the skippers options are pretty limited...
1) Going overboard to attempt a fix; non-starter I feel... swell, movement etc, create a unnaceptable risk of injury with a short handed crew.. Sawing through a 2 inch thick chunk of steel with a hacksaw is a non-starter..
2) Dropping the Rudder... whilst possible maybe in a marina... getting access to the steering parts, having the tools , etc, all are going to be difficult , but the biggest danger I feel would be as the rudder was dropping there would be a large increase in the lever forces on the rudder as it dropped away (In the seas) and this would be exerted on a reducing area of the rudder stock. such that once the stock was maybe 2/3rds of the way out the forces could be such to severaly damage the laminate of the hull... so instead of 2 inch round hole in the back of the boat, you may end up with a big chunk missing... And , is it really a good idea to put a hole in the bottom of aboat that is , whilst disabled, not shipping water?? Especially when there is no possibility of rescue... even if the rudder is dropped out without causing more damage... you still have a hole were before you did not.
No, I think he did about the right thing... keep the boat afloat, try to fix it , and wait until he drifts closer to the Islands.... in the meantime the boat aint sinking, and no ones injured.
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
Re: underwater crowbar
Disconnect steering gear, man over side and attach two gclamps to aft edge of rudder..tie sheet to g clamps and use the most powerful thing on the boat---the two speed cockpit winches---to ease rudder to central. Carry on sailing with hydrovane at the rear..Easy innit when you are at home !
Disconnect steering gear, man over side and attach two gclamps to aft edge of rudder..tie sheet to g clamps and use the most powerful thing on the boat---the two speed cockpit winches---to ease rudder to central. Carry on sailing with hydrovane at the rear..Easy innit when you are at home !
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
Re: underwater crowbar
I had to jump in to clear a line round the rudder on a lee shore and engineless on a delivery job many years ago. It was only a f4 off the coast of Spain but certainly not to be recomended. I Thought I'd broken my arm when the boat landed on it.
I had to jump in to clear a line round the rudder on a lee shore and engineless on a delivery job many years ago. It was only a f4 off the coast of Spain but certainly not to be recomended. I Thought I'd broken my arm when the boat landed on it.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Re: underwater crowbar
You might not need the G cramps.... a good lashing might do the trick......
Good idea though!
You might not need the G cramps.... a good lashing might do the trick......
Good idea though!
tcm
...
Re: underwater crowbar
hm, attaching gclamps a bit flaky... but using winches somehow will prolly be better than underwater crowbar. Giant rolling hitch all around the rudder, and then winch on that? Yeah, easy from here, but definitely worth thinking about in advance...
hm, attaching gclamps a bit flaky... but using winches somehow will prolly be better than underwater crowbar. Giant rolling hitch all around the rudder, and then winch on that? Yeah, easy from here, but definitely worth thinking about in advance...
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
Re: underwater crowbar
BTW I was reading your blog, Morgana, and you mention hydrovanes
-Yes you can fit one offcentre, I did on my last 28 that had an open transom slot in the centre.
In fact I 'hung' the hydrovane at about 7 degrees from the vertical too so that the rudder blade was that bit closer to the centreline of the boat- it worked just fine and didn't look odd..
BTW I was reading your blog, Morgana, and you mention hydrovanes
-Yes you can fit one offcentre, I did on my last 28 that had an open transom slot in the centre.
In fact I 'hung' the hydrovane at about 7 degrees from the vertical too so that the rudder blade was that bit closer to the centreline of the boat- it worked just fine and didn't look odd..
Impaler
Well-Known Member
Daily Mail call a 30,000-ton, 183-metre tanker a Supertanker... what tosh! It's just a little pishy toy!! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
fantasia7628
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Ah, you registered over 15 months ago - don't play the old 'being new to this forum' excuse with us !!
Anyway, it's a Manky Auld Boat - coined by a bunch of Scots on here referring to long-keelers, transom hung rudders, tan sails, indoor steering, etc, or anything which is not an AWB.
[/ QUOTE ]
True that I registered 15 months ago. That would be when Tom Ekhoff died (Tome) and I logged on here to read all of your wonderful tributes to my old friend. I have logged on from time to time and enjoy the humour and sound advice given on this forum. I like Manky Auld Boat, not sure whether it will be one of those or an AWB when I return to proper yachting,
Ah, you registered over 15 months ago - don't play the old 'being new to this forum' excuse with us !!
Anyway, it's a Manky Auld Boat - coined by a bunch of Scots on here referring to long-keelers, transom hung rudders, tan sails, indoor steering, etc, or anything which is not an AWB.
[/ QUOTE ]
True that I registered 15 months ago. That would be when Tom Ekhoff died (Tome) and I logged on here to read all of your wonderful tributes to my old friend. I have logged on from time to time and enjoy the humour and sound advice given on this forum. I like Manky Auld Boat, not sure whether it will be one of those or an AWB when I return to proper yachting,
tcm
...
lakesailored
hm. Now, see, you gone and lakesailored me. That means that although I told you what MAB means (and I was there! - we'd made loads of breakfast hence para v keen to meet up asap) you atually responded/thanked a later poster for the explanation. Harumph!
Yes, anyway, I too still think a lot about Tome, hit me quite hard i spose, was planning to transat with him dammit sometime. Oh, yerv got me started agin now...
hm. Now, see, you gone and lakesailored me. That means that although I told you what MAB means (and I was there! - we'd made loads of breakfast hence para v keen to meet up asap) you atually responded/thanked a later poster for the explanation. Harumph!
Yes, anyway, I too still think a lot about Tome, hit me quite hard i spose, was planning to transat with him dammit sometime. Oh, yerv got me started agin now...
BurnitBlue
Well-Known Member
Re: underwater crowbar
Giant rolling hitch all around the rudder, and then winch on that? Yeah, easy from here, but definitely worth thinking about in advance.
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Either Hiscock or Van Dorn recommend that before any yacht goes ocean the owner should drill a fortified hole in the trailing edge of their rudder and attach a shackle to it. Not sure it would solve a bent shaft though which seems terminal to me if bent on full lock.
Perhaps a pre-cut groove in the shaft for a sacrificial break.
Giant rolling hitch all around the rudder, and then winch on that? Yeah, easy from here, but definitely worth thinking about in advance.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Either Hiscock or Van Dorn recommend that before any yacht goes ocean the owner should drill a fortified hole in the trailing edge of their rudder and attach a shackle to it. Not sure it would solve a bent shaft though which seems terminal to me if bent on full lock.
Perhaps a pre-cut groove in the shaft for a sacrificial break.
graham
Well-Known Member
Re: underwater crowbar
[ QUOTE ]
the biggest danger I feel would be as the rudder was dropping there would be a large increase in the lever forces on the rudder as it dropped away (In the seas) and this would be exerted on a reducing area of the rudder stock. such that once the stock was maybe 2/3rds of the way out the forces could be such to severaly damage the laminate of the hull... so instead of 2 inch round hole in the back of the boat, you may end up with a big chunk missing... And , is it really a good idea to put a hole in the bottom of aboat that is , whilst disabled, not shipping water?? Especially when there is no possibility of rescue...
[/ QUOTE ]
On second thoughts I think your absolutely right Trying to jettison a spade rudder could be catastrophic. If you got the rudder pushed down part way then it jammed the leverage as the boat rolled in the swell would be immense.Quite possibly doing damage to the hull.
Better to be rescued from a floating boat than have to take to the liferaft.
[ QUOTE ]
the biggest danger I feel would be as the rudder was dropping there would be a large increase in the lever forces on the rudder as it dropped away (In the seas) and this would be exerted on a reducing area of the rudder stock. such that once the stock was maybe 2/3rds of the way out the forces could be such to severaly damage the laminate of the hull... so instead of 2 inch round hole in the back of the boat, you may end up with a big chunk missing... And , is it really a good idea to put a hole in the bottom of aboat that is , whilst disabled, not shipping water?? Especially when there is no possibility of rescue...
[/ QUOTE ]
On second thoughts I think your absolutely right Trying to jettison a spade rudder could be catastrophic. If you got the rudder pushed down part way then it jammed the leverage as the boat rolled in the swell would be immense.Quite possibly doing damage to the hull.
Better to be rescued from a floating boat than have to take to the liferaft.
tcm
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big hole
i have a couple of litres of this stuff http://www.epoxysolutions.co.uk/kollisionkit.html which should bung even quite large holes.
i have a couple of litres of this stuff http://www.epoxysolutions.co.uk/kollisionkit.html which should bung even quite large holes.
sighmoon
Well-Known Member
Given that he had not much else to do for 34 days, I'm sure he tried pretty well everything.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Yep, that's what I figured too..... with 34 days you'd like to think that you'd come up with pretty much every conceivable idea to fix the problem!
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
Daily Mail also reckon 1200 miles is 5 days sailing! Not in any normal cruising boat it isn't.
