Yacht lost on Shingles

[flaming]

Having said that, during the initial exchanges he did describe their situation as being "aground between the Needles and Hurst Channel" so maybe they were (for whatever reason) unaware of precisely where they were.

Am I the only one who thinks that position really ought to be sufficient for a lifeboat or helicopter to go almost straight to them?

That is not a big area, and a boat outside of the channel should stick out like a sore thumb.

Sure, an accurate Lat/Long would be ideal, but the guy wasn't sat in a dry, still, classroom on a radio course, he was bouncing up and down on a notoriously unforgiving shingle bank and probably scared witless. And probably quite cold/wet.

Whatever mistakes he made in order to wind up there, he has lived to learn them thanks to the lifeboat/helicopter being able to find them quickly. Which does rather suggest that his position reporting did the trick!

 

[elton]

Once again the armchair sailors are pronouncing the blame whilst not having any of the facts.

True.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Mmm, fair enough but, it was Chipete who has posted that it was a RIB that relayed the position to the CG so, has this guy set out from, Poole say, for the Solent, and chosen to enter via the needles. Now if he has done that, he either has relied on pilotage, nothing wrong with that, for his trip, or navigating by chart or plotter. Surely in either case he should have an idea where he is? Or has he set out blindly, not knowing any of the hazards and been completely unaware of the Shingles bank? I would be horrified to learn that was the case.

Also I find it strange that a boat with sails and an engine in fairly benign conditions has lost the ability to avoid the hazard, as Doris has already said.

It is fair to say though, until we hear the full story, it is all pure supposition.

 

[colingr]

Also I find it strange that a boat with sails and an engine in fairly benign conditions has lost the ability to avoid the hazard, as Doris has already said.

It is fair to say though, until we hear the full story, it is all pure supposition.

I seem to recall Sunday being pretty gusty, not totally benign. Although to be fair that was at Weymouth rather than Hurst.

Again supposition but they might not have known they were in trouble until they grounded, by then it could have been too late for firing up the engine.

They won't be the first by any means to come to grief there. At the wrong time you can get swept onto the bank pretty easily if you get too close.

We don't know their experience, or local knowledge.

I'm sure all wil become revearled in time. At least they are still around to tell the tale.

 

[jimi]

I must admit I thought the description of position was about spot on, and if the SAR could'nt locate him from that description then maybe they're in the wrong job? Personally I'd be looking for the buoys and sector lights, piloting using them rather than watching a chart plotter. The Shingles does move about and is pretty steep to in the Needles Channel and it would'nt be difficult to pile up onto it if tacking up and trying to extend the tacks for as long as possible (I know cos I've been within a whisker of doing so myself!)

 

[Aardee]

I must admit I thought the description of position was about spot on, and if the SAR could'nt locate him from that description then maybe they're in the wrong job? Personally I'd be looking for the buoys and sector lights, piloting using them rather than watching a chart plotter. The Shingles does move about and is pretty steep to in the Needles Channel and it would'nt be difficult to pile up onto it if tacking up and trying to extend the tacks for as long as possible (I know cos I've been within a whisker of doing so myself!)

You're right, the description was pretty much spot-on. However, I'm sure the CG always ask for lat & long just to make sure you are where you say/ think you are.

 

[doris]

It would'nt be difficult to pile up onto it if tacking up and trying to extend the tacks for as long as possible (I know cos I've been within a whisker of doing so myself!)

As I mentioned before the wind was 'fresh' but certainly not horrid however there was probably a pretty good swell running. Don't know which way they were going but the main channel would have been a much bumpier course in a 27 footer if they were going west. If coming in, it would have been a nice surfy broad reach!

I think we all look forward to learning what went wrong if only so that we can all avoid the same embarrassment ourselves!

 

[Woody]

The CG, who couldn't get a fix from the skipper, ended up asking if they were on the Shingles. This was confirmed by the RIB Rio who was assisting on scene.

We were also listening to this unfold whilst sailing from Portsmouth to the Beaulieu and it was the rib Rio that confirmed the position to CG. They then stood by as requested by CG, to give updates and assistance. Did anyone else hear the other vessel in contact with CG, who when asked if they were in a position to stand by or assist answered "negative"?

Full marks to rib Rio, RNLI and the CG.

 

[ChiPete]

Yes, we heard that ''negative'' as well. I think he said he was ''going in the wrong direction'' or something similar. Muppet. I do hope that when he's (or I for that matter) in need of assistance, a better Samaritan than he is around to help....

 

[doris]

We were also listening to this unfold whilst sailing from Portsmouth to the Beaulieu and it was the rib Rio that confirmed the position to CG. They then stood by as requested by CG, to give updates and assistance. Did anyone else hear the other vessel in contact with CG, who when asked if they were in a position to stand by or assist answered "negative"?

Full marks to rib Rio, RNLI and the CG.

The bloke who gave a negative was well down tide already and only clarified the position of the casualty. Also he was a yacht who could get near another yacht stuck on the bank!

 

[Aardee]

Yes, we heard that ''negative'' as well. I think he said he was ''going in the wrong direction'' or something similar. Muppet. I do hope that when he's (or I for that matter) in need of assistance, a better Samaritan than he is around to help....

A little harsh maybe??

My understanding was that he was already being carried past Hurst on the incoming tide. If he was a yacht rather than a mobo, it was less a case of "Muppet", more a case of "can't get off the conveyor belt"

 

[lw395]

Yes, we heard that ''negative'' as well. I think he said he was ''going in the wrong direction'' or something similar. Muppet. I do hope that when he's (or I for that matter) in need of assistance, a better Samaritan than he is around to help....

Sorry I think that's completely out of order.
If you are not in a position to assist effectively, what would be more stupid than saying you were?
He probably had a judgement to make, could he get uptide or whatever sufficiently quickly, and decided that he could not. Hence Mr Coastguard needs to find someone who is in a position to assist.
Even if he was a mile down tide, thats a 20 minute slog back or more, compared with sending a fast vessel from Yarmouth in 15 minutes.
And a fin keel yacht is never well placed to assist on a shingle bank. How would you go about assisting without endangering your own vessel? watch helplessly? Fart about in the tender?
Clearly a decent RIB is much better placed.

It's probably not easy to say 'no I cannot assist' but it might endanger lives to pretend you can.

 

[BelleSerene]

View attachment 4548
Not broken up yet, taken early afternoon Monday.

Well that's interesting. I was sailing alone from the Hamble to Poole on Sunday, and I heard the radio traffic. I had no starter motor (don't ask) so no engine, and then the gooseneck broke (oh please don't ask). I was thinking of calling it off, facing the Needles under genoa alone, but I fixed the gooseneck at anchor off Beaulieu and with both sails working continued out of the Needles Channel, clearly missing this mast which must have been sitting right on the Shingles to Starboard!

After the twin mishap I was too late for the family gathering in Poole (my wife and kids had taken the road) - so I spent the night at anchor in Studland and sailed back on Monday, using the North Channel - and I didn't see the sunken mast then either!

 

[Iain C]

Yep, we heard it too...we'd had a nose around the area on Saturday in our 27 footer and it was a pretty sobering thought! Does anyone know what class Blu Argent was?

It was a busy weekend for things going wrong. We heard the Blu Argent Mayday, another Mayday with someone getting injured on a Bavaria, and another one with a tri losing a mast. We saw a Freedom style boat getting towed into Port Solent with a rope around the prop after running aground in the approach, a big racing yacht very firmly aground outside the Hamble, and another boat have a putty encounter near the entrance to Portchester lake late on Monday.

Sobering stuff, and made us very happy to have not had any issues all weekend, despite reading 34kts on Friday on the way to Cowes!

 

[mcframe]

"aground between the Needles and Hurst Channel"

Am I the only one who thinks that position really ought to be sufficient for a lifeboat or helicopter to go almost straight to them?

That is not a big area, and a boat outside of the channel should stick out like a sore thumb.

Yes - I heard that, and one in Portsmouth Harbour "You've fouled your propellor on a mooring? Are you still made fast to the mooring?" and one at Langstone Entrance "Solent CG, this is Fishing Boat $SOMETHING, I can see the boat in trouble, my ETA is about 60 seconds".

CG seemed rather keen on lat/long and less keen on range & bearing - 'tho we've DSC*, I'll be paying a bit more attention to relative position WRT charted objects in future - if only to avoid possible comments from the peanut gallery.

* I must try a non-alarm "position send" to CG - 6am on a Wednesday morning is probably a good time for a radio check ;-)

 

[BlueSkyNick]

a non-alarm "position send" to CG -

What's one of them, then - How do you do it on DSC?

 

[strakeryrius]

Saw this poor blighter at the mouth of the Hamble about 11:15 Monday morning - surmised that he probably had engine failure on approach to or exiting the river. Anyone know what the actual problem was?

 

[mcframe]

'a non-alarm "position send" to CG'

What's one of them, then - How do you do it on DSC?

Err, it could be a Standard Horizon-ism, but RTFM for your radio and google for NMEA DSC DSE sentences.

DSC isn't just for the CG - "U cn TXT Ur M8s 2", err, "initiate an RT conversation with a chosen vessel on a chosen channel" ;-)

Last season we got DSC calling working between vessels - an ack would switch to the requested (by the calling station) channel - this year we'll try position request/send and see if it's plotted automagically. (Yes, we cheated by initially texting MMSI numbers, but they're a bit long for semaphore or flags...)

 

[st599]

Saw this poor blighter at the mouth of the Hamble about 11:15 Monday morning - surmised that he probably had engine failure on approach to or exiting the river. Anyone know what the actual problem was?

He was still there at 2ish when we went in. Getting pulled off the mud by the Harbour Master.

 

[ChiPete]

I accept my words may appear a little harsh....but!

The CG wanted a vessel to standby, not to assist at that stage. If you're downtide and under sail, get the engine on and work back up. If you haven't got an engine make this clear in your transmission. If someone is later better able to assist (as RIB Rio was) then you can be released from the scene at any time.

The key ethos behind my post is at sea, if someone's in distress and you're nearby the location, then (until you know other assistance is available) you are duty bound to assist in any way that you can without putting you, your crew or your vessel in danger. Even if you can't get close due to draught, you're available to relay comms, provide updates to CG and in the worst-case, assist those who have had to abandon ship into the water.