Yacht designers are bonkers

[Daydream believer]

Your are absolutely right, designers are nuts!

I live with one and have worked with a few, so speak from first hand experience.
.

So you reckon designers like
Finot- conq, phillip Briand, Ron Holland & Judel & Vrolijk
Who all design for the mass market are nuts?
Plus your partner is nuts - have you told him/ her yet?
I suspect not !!

 

[dslittle]

With that pitifully small chart table I suspect this is designed for fair-weather coastal day cruiser types. And is that a wine-rack on the left?!

Perhaps that is a full size chart table...

 

[Daydream believer]

Perhaps that is a full size chart table...

Perhaps the elecronic chart plotter etc is so good they do not feel charts quite so important
Set ups on yachts like that are a little different to the 4.5 inch cheapy from e bay
Mind you they still go wrong!!!

 

[fuss]

In mugs that have lids. Have you no imagination?

Exactly and also insulated.... Even somewhere warm like the med, it makes a huge difference if windy.

 

[tjanna]

So you reckon designers like
Finot- conq, phillip Briand, Ron Holland & Judel & Vrolijk
Who all design for the mass market are nuts?
Plus your partner is nuts - have you told him/ her yet?
I suspect not !!

Did you not see that little yellow circle thing y with a smiley face on it in my post? It was to be taken in jest. Not literally!!

I stick with what I have said and I tell my partner (female) she's nuts at least twice a week. This keeps her from wasting her time and my money on idea's that just aren't practical.

There's always one trying to pick a fight

 

[pathfinderstu]

You've all missed the point - it's not the designers, but the builders (and a lack of critical eye for detail) that are to blame for the impracticalities...

s
I think its you sir thats missed the point not every one else.
The main jist of the topic is around production line boats, not owner driver yards where the jobbing builder will knock you up a couple of extra bunks if you see him right.
bens, bavarias ,jeanneaus etc are on a production line with plumbers doing the plumbing etc. cabin furniture is cut by a computor and stuck in by fitters. all the design is done on computor and taken from there.
no room for craftsmen, shipwrights and the like now.

 

[Daydream believer]

s
I think its you sir thats missed the point not every one else.
The main jist of the topic is around production line boats, not owner driver yards where the jobbing builder will knock you up a couple of extra bunks if you see him right.
bens, bavarias ,jeanneaus etc are on a production line with plumbers doing the plumbing etc. cabin furniture is cut by a computor and stuck in by fitters. all the design is done on computor and taken from there.
no room for craftsmen, shipwrights and the like now.[/QUOTE

Of course there is no room for the bloke in a shed anymore & who's to say that Is not a good thing
The term " builder" applies to the company making the yacht
There is nothing wrong with mass production in fact the technology is far superior to that from years ago
Just because an item is cut on computer guided machine does not mean it is bad - it is better in that it is an accurate representation of the design. The accuracy of the product shows greater skills than those of old
It is not the builder or the designer at fault
It is the buying public- they generate the sales
The supplier offers a product based on market research. If he gets it right he sells boats
Bavaria, Beneteau et alia have it spot on- it is what the buyer wants
You might think a Najad, a Maxi is a better boat & perhaps it is
But where are the builders now
The buying public vote with their wallets
That is not the fault of the designer or the builder

 

[Greenheart]

It is not the builder or the designer at fault It is the buying public...The buying public vote with their wallets...That is not the fault of the designer or the builder

That would also explain why there are tens of millions of tediously bland 'practical' cars on our roads, despite a widespread liking for style & luxury...

...and equally, it explains why almost everyone would always ultimately prefer something rarer and more special.

Whatever the reasons are and whichever way the 'blame' is attributed, the fact stays the same...

...the popular choice is cheap because its construction is time/labour-efficient, driven not by determination to create a high quality product, but just high sales...

...great for the builders/shareholders, but the brand's success doesn't make the product particularly desirable.

I reckon the dislike expressed here, for production-line eco-boats, is an objection to the boats, not to the reasons why they're chosen by a majority.

After all, the budget for a forty-foot X-Yacht or Nautor Swan, would buy a vastly bigger Frenchie, and sadly, most people choose quantity over quality...

...but I doubt any BenJenBav owner is aboard the boat he really, ultimately coveted and dreamed of...instead, he just bought the one that made sense, within his budget. Along with thousands of other sailors.

 

[jimi]

Talking of cars! You need to remove the front bumper to change the dip headlight bulb on the drivers side of a Vauxhall Vectra!

 

[Greenheart]

Talking of cars! You need to remove the front bumper to change the dip headlight bulb on the drivers side of a Vauxhall Vectra!

Good point! And take note: the 1982 Colt Sapporo coupé headlights smash very easily if you drive hard into solid objects.

 

[Daydream believer]

That would also explain why there are tens of millions of tediously bland 'practical' cars on our roads, despite a widespread liking for style & luxury...

...and equally, it explains why almost everyone would always ultimately prefer something rarer and more special.

Whatever the reasons are and whichever way the 'blame' is attributed, the fact stays the same...

...the popular choice is cheap because its construction is time/labour-efficient, driven not by determination to create a high quality product, but just high sales...

...great for the builders/shareholders, but the brand's success doesn't make the product particularly desirable.

I reckon the dislike expressed here, for production-line eco-boats, is an objection to the boats, not to the reasons why they're chosen by a majority.

After all, the budget for a forty-foot X-Yacht or Nautor Swan, would buy a vastly bigger Frenchie, and sadly, most people choose quantity over quality...

...but I doubt any BenJenBav owner is aboard the boat he really, ultimately coveted and dreamed of...instead, he just bought the one that made sense, within his budget. Along with thousands of other sailors.

Actually those " bland "cars you refer to are generally of very high quality & if you compare with cars of old they are considerably better. I would suspect that You only think they are bland because there are a lot of them
I would also consider that the modern yacht is rather similar. The quality control is ,in many cases, excellent.
But like the car, a few turn out with faults - & yes i agree with earlier posts that is the fault pf the builder
However, the price has made a lot of yachts available to the buying public
I also believe that - like the cars- they do what the buyer wants of them & most buyers are perfectly happy
In the main It is only those " outside " the spectrum that criticise
Yes one would often aspire to better but that is a dream most have whether it be house car boat wife or whatever
I happen to think that my GRP yacht is good looking & does exactly what i want of it. The fact that there are lots of them only goes to show that others agree

 

[prv]

You might think a Najad, a Maxi is a better boat & perhaps it is

Have to say, having spent the last three months up close and personal with the insides of a Maxi, if that's an example of "better" manufacture I dread to think how BenJenBavs are put together

Pete

 

[Daydream believer]

Have to say, having spent the last three months up close and personal with the insides of a Maxi, if that's an example of "better" manufacture I dread to think how BenJenBavs are put together

Pete

Well at least you picked " Maxi" from my list & not "wife"
It just goes to show that based on your comment that more expensive is not necessarily better

 

[Daydream believer]

sadly, most people choose quantity over quality...

So why is that sad
I am not convinced that more expensive is necessarily better
True there are stories about bad Bavs- they are bound to have critics
But have you seen the old news about the HR 37 that had an extremely badly constructed hull
It took the owner a lot of trouble in court
I do believe he finally got another boat but i am not sure
This may be an isolated incident
However, the fact is that clangers do get dropped by the expensive constructors & they do not all hold their hands up & admit it
As an aside!
In my business the policy was " if something is genuinely wrong then stop & correct it. Do not let it fester"
In the end it costs less & i found the client often thinks more of you for doing so
Yacht builders would improve reputations of they did that

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Talking of cars! You need to remove the front bumper to change the dip headlight bulb on the drivers side of a Vauxhall Vectra!

And changing a headlight bulb on a Smart Roadster is a garage job; the user manual doesn't even attempt to tell you how to do it - and I think it requires substantial dismantling of the bodywork.

 

[Tranona]

Have to say, having spent the last three months up close and personal with the insides of a Maxi, if that's an example of "better" manufacture I dread to think how BenJenBavs are put together

Pete

Based on my experience of buying one new, well put together. They have made them simple so that they can be put together by relatively unskilled people and made enough of them to iron out most of the bugs. My only real complaint is that the finish around the edges is untidy, particularly in places you don't see - but it all works and has held together well. The latest models I looked at are much better in this respect. Mine was built in 2001 when they were still holding onto the "traditional" look while cutting costs.

Many of the "better" boats are not fully thought through and put together "on the hoof" so you often get the extremes of high level craftmanship of things that show like woodwork and poor installation of systems. No doubt you have many times wanted to say something like "why on earth did they do that?" and it is usually because the details were left to the individuals building the boat.

 

[Greenheart]

"Sadly, most people choose quantity over quality..."

...why is that sad?

Sad that a costly masterpiece is less appealing to many of those who could afford it, than a much bigger boat built without particular care, but for the same cost.

I didn't intend any offence to contented owners of popular and affordable yachts. Despite the obvious differences in design and scale of production, I reckon cheap yachts - like Hillyards - were, and are, bound to be subject to some scorn, only part of which is deserved; and over time, the once-scorned designs grow in reputation, to be adored for their wide availability.

For myself, I just don't admire or desire the roomy, bright, 'shore-style' of accommodation (which I've mainly seen on yachts in the economical end of the market), whose designers doubtless hope to present it as cool and contemporary - I'm not remotely persuaded that a cabin which resembles a very compact city apartment, is nicer than the narrower, rich hardwood interiors of, eg 1980s Sweden Yachts...

...but perhaps thirty years' retrospect will view today's BenJenBavs as an enormous leap forward from the dark constricted lines of older designs? Like comparing a Westerly Centaur with a Folkboat? Maybe. Although, I always rather liked Folkboats, too...

 

[prv]

No doubt you have many times wanted to say something like "why on earth did they do that?" and it is usually because the details were left to the individuals building the boat.

I think in this case it's tended to be because she was a charter boat and just needed the kit working and back in service ASAP, and if the details are a bit ropey who's going to worry when they only have the boat for a week?

Don't want to give the impression she's a crappy boat though. There are broken, worn and corroded bits, and some bits a little lightly built compared to what I'm used to, but overall she's a nice boat and the bits will get fixed with time. I still walk down the pontoon and think she looks pretty

Pete

 

[Tranona]

Rather surprising choice for a charter boat. One of the reasons why the cheap boats are popular for charters (apart from being lower capital cost) is that they are usually easier to fix. Can honestly say the only things that went wrong in the 7 years mine was on charter were plumbing and electrics - and all kit the same as on more expensive boats. But mostly easily fixed because of good accessibility. Part of that is because it was in the Ionian where the weather is generally benign and punters more interested in drifting from Taverna to Taverna rather than thrashing the boat.

 

[prv]

Rather surprising choice for a charter boat.

Indeed. In fact, the magazine review specifically said that they're rarely chartered. But this one was.

Note that it was an owner / charter type arrangement in the UK, not part of a holiday company's fleet.

Pete