Crabman
Well-Known Member
Why are yacht brokers exspensive . 8% commision ? What qualifications are required to become a yacht broker?
Yacht Brokers
- Thread starter Crabman
- Start date
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
It's been extensively discussed in the last few weeks. Do a search.
jonic
Well-Known Member
I do not charge that.
I'm ABYA qualified and have 10 years long distance sailing experience with 20,000 miles under the keel, a wide knowledge of yachts and their systems, 20 years professional sales experience, yacht brokers professional indemnity insurance and a client account written in trust at Lloyds.
I'm ABYA qualified and have 10 years long distance sailing experience with 20,000 miles under the keel, a wide knowledge of yachts and their systems, 20 years professional sales experience, yacht brokers professional indemnity insurance and a client account written in trust at Lloyds.
Magnum
RIP
3-5% is more realistic and being offered by many. I still think it's too much but hey, it's a "marine" business.
jonic
Well-Known Member
It's a totally voluntary choice to sell via a broker so the price is set by the market and the cost of the overhead.
Magnum I see your occupation is "International Playboy".
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Ability to broker deals as the name implies. Many (most?) are members of one of the professional associations. Commission rates are decided by the market and vary according to the services offered, the value of the deal and the level of competition. Remember they only get paid when the deal is done.
jonic
Well-Known Member
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Sorry Tranona got to correct you there.... IF the deal is done.
Thats what I really meant. All those who complain about the so called high commission should be forced to spend a year trying to make a living as a broker! Just the same with my freelance work - sucking of teeth at my daily rate - trouble is those "days" are very hard to find and not many of them. Not because I am no good, but the market is limited and those who do employ me value what I have on offer.
Last edited:
Juniperskip
Well-Known Member
BOATMATCH offer a set 4% rate for a succesful sale. Headline figure on their website and it is a knowledgable team...
Resolution
Well-Known Member
Sure, but check out exactly what their website says they are providing:
Online brokerage= no dockside premises from which to show your boat.
Online brokerage= have they seen your boat and advised on asking prices in view of its particular condition?
Online brokerage= how can they add anything worthwhile when a prospective buyer calls in?
"Arranged or accompanied viewings" = Accompanied by whom?
"Brokers fee by arrangement" = I thought they were contracting to be your broker?
"£2,000 minimum fee" = Don't even think of wasting our time unless your boat is worth at least £50,000.
I think the internet is a superb tool for communications between buyers and sellers in general, and I suspect that the Boatmatch team are proficient in the sometimes awful business of negotiation and documentation of the sale itself. But they cannot provide all the physical services that brokers with a dockside presence can.
Crabman
Well-Known Member
So what qualifica
tions are required to become a yacht broker?
tions are required to become a yacht broker?
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
What like handing you a set of keys and waving you in vaguely the right direction?
Because that's been my experience of brokers in the last few years.... in fact I can only remember one accompanied visit to look over a boat in the last 10 years (out of perhaps 15 viewings).... and that was a few years ago to look at a Moody 33 that he'd assured me was in excellent condition, so I drove 4 hrs to see it only to step below and find it filthy, with water an inch over the sole boards.... sadly most dont seem to have the customer service ethos that Jonic displays....
Tranona
Well-Known Member
So what qualifica
A have already answered that question. If you are fixated with formal qualifications you will find from nothing to chartered engineers, to naval architects, to master mariners amd so on.
This is a merotocratic world where people can be successful on the basis of their own efforts - and in this case successful enough to attract enough clients to earn a living.
vertford
Well-Known Member
In defence of brokers...
In winter 2009, I visited 3 brokers and 3 used boat shows on the South and East Coast. As a newby, they were all switched on and engaged with me, did some accompanied viewings with one of them and was advised of the one boat that was somewhat tatty before I had the choice to go onboard.
Viewing/sale was done properly and speedily. All boats for sale in my current yard look ready for sale and seem to shift reasonably quickly.The broker was waiting for doing someone to do visits this weekend, so that made 2 of us standing around in the freezing cold.
Not all are bad....
In winter 2009, I visited 3 brokers and 3 used boat shows on the South and East Coast. As a newby, they were all switched on and engaged with me, did some accompanied viewings with one of them and was advised of the one boat that was somewhat tatty before I had the choice to go onboard.
Viewing/sale was done properly and speedily. All boats for sale in my current yard look ready for sale and seem to shift reasonably quickly.The broker was waiting for doing someone to do visits this weekend, so that made 2 of us standing around in the freezing cold.
Not all are bad....
jonic
Well-Known Member
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
I sold my previous boat through a broker. It cost me a few % and at the time I felt it was a lot of money for the time that they actually spent on it.
However, they did find the buyer in the first place. It was their presence on the internet, investment into search engine keywords, and willingness to take phone calls from lots of tire-kickers that enabled a deal to happen.
So, I am happy to pay, but I do not believe a percentage is the right way to calculate a fee. The amount of work done it not neccessarily proportionate to the price of the boat, so why should the fee be?
Here's an example.
Nice clean boat, worth about £100k. Owner not desparate to sell, so offers it up for £110k. Broker works his butt off but never gets a high enough offer. Broker persuades the owner to lower his price and after a dozen accompanied viewings he eventaully sells for £100k.
Next boat less smart. Worth £300k, but the owner wants his cash quickly. Puts it up at £250k. Lots of interest and the first to view it offers £200k. Owner decides to take the offer.
Does the broker really deserve twice as much for the transaction on the second boat? I dont think so.
You could argue that this is swings and roundabouts. Yes it is. For the broker, but it is certainly not fair for the owner.
I would prefer a flat fee for the sale and a bonus based on performance above a certain sale price. If you are happy taking £100k it is well worth giving the broker a nice piece of the action above that. He is then incentivised to upsell your boat, as opposed to getting you to drop your price for a quick sale. Yes, he pays a small part of that drop, but so little it desnt really matter.
However, they did find the buyer in the first place. It was their presence on the internet, investment into search engine keywords, and willingness to take phone calls from lots of tire-kickers that enabled a deal to happen.
So, I am happy to pay, but I do not believe a percentage is the right way to calculate a fee. The amount of work done it not neccessarily proportionate to the price of the boat, so why should the fee be?
Here's an example.
Nice clean boat, worth about £100k. Owner not desparate to sell, so offers it up for £110k. Broker works his butt off but never gets a high enough offer. Broker persuades the owner to lower his price and after a dozen accompanied viewings he eventaully sells for £100k.
Next boat less smart. Worth £300k, but the owner wants his cash quickly. Puts it up at £250k. Lots of interest and the first to view it offers £200k. Owner decides to take the offer.
Does the broker really deserve twice as much for the transaction on the second boat? I dont think so.
You could argue that this is swings and roundabouts. Yes it is. For the broker, but it is certainly not fair for the owner.
I would prefer a flat fee for the sale and a bonus based on performance above a certain sale price. If you are happy taking £100k it is well worth giving the broker a nice piece of the action above that. He is then incentivised to upsell your boat, as opposed to getting you to drop your price for a quick sale. Yes, he pays a small part of that drop, but so little it desnt really matter.
davidej
Well-Known Member
I wish .....
Outside these gilded circles, the prices are neare £10k to £50k. Work out the comission on that!
jonic
Well-Known Member
High value and larger boats are often on a lower negotiated %
I will work on a fixed fee for larger and high value vessels.
It often takes a different level of knowledge, very different marketing and higher insurance costs when selling larger high value vessels. The market is also much smaller so selling can be harder and more time consuming.
Brokers are only paid if the boat sells. If it does not, any costs, which can be considerable, are permanently lost by the broker. If the boat does not sell you pay nothing.
Conversely If you spend a year advertising in magazines or on the web and your boat does not sell, none of your money is refunded.
A % ensures your broker is selling your boat at the right market price, the more he sells the boat for the more he gets paid so he has every incentive....but as he is on a % with no money up front and the chance of losing money whilst it is not sold he will price it correctly for the market and not overprice.
He is duty bound to pass on all offers, if the owner accepts a very low one the % paid is also less.
swalworths
New Member
Boatmatch reply
I am a Director of Boatmatch.com and a broker by profession.
While I respect your views, I do not agree with them.
To answer your points:
Online brokerage= no dockside premises from which to show your boat.
A broker does not need to be based on a marina to sell your boat, it is more important he is professional about managing the sale and advising his clients and customers properly.
Online brokerage= have they seen your boat and advised on asking prices in view of its particular condition
With the majority of boats produced in series, it is not over challenging to value a boat, wherever it lies. Value is affected by condition, specification and location. Boatmatch view boats when possible in the UK, but work with the owners to get as close to a value with boats abroad. Judging by our success in selling boats in distant places, this is working.
Online brokerage= how can they add anything worthwhile when a prospective buyer calls in?
Does anyone travel these days without checking what's out there and where it's lying? What do Boatmatch offer? Well apart from understanding the product, qualifying buyers, dealing with legal and VAT issues, banks and arranging all aspects of the sale, we offer nothing. On many occasions, we facilitate deliver to her new owners, many times to interesting locations.
"Arranged or accompanied viewings" = Accompanied by whom?
Where possible, Boatmatch attend viewings. In my experience, most owners are more than happy to be at a viewing with a qualified buyer. Our customers are always happy to do the viewing; they just want us to deal with the sale.
"Brokers fee by arrangement" = I thought they were contracting to be your broker?
Our terms are clear on the boatmatch web site.
"£2,000 minimum fee" = don’t even think of wasting our time unless your boat is worth at least £50,000.
Boatmatch happy to sell a lower value boat, but at a fair fee. This is no different to the majority of brokers who operate a minimum fee policy.
Boatmatch are British Marine Federation and a Boat Retailer and Brokers Association member, Simon Walworth is a serving member of the BRBA committee.
I am a Director of Boatmatch.com and a broker by profession.
While I respect your views, I do not agree with them.
To answer your points:
Online brokerage= no dockside premises from which to show your boat.
A broker does not need to be based on a marina to sell your boat, it is more important he is professional about managing the sale and advising his clients and customers properly.
Online brokerage= have they seen your boat and advised on asking prices in view of its particular condition
With the majority of boats produced in series, it is not over challenging to value a boat, wherever it lies. Value is affected by condition, specification and location. Boatmatch view boats when possible in the UK, but work with the owners to get as close to a value with boats abroad. Judging by our success in selling boats in distant places, this is working.
Online brokerage= how can they add anything worthwhile when a prospective buyer calls in?
Does anyone travel these days without checking what's out there and where it's lying? What do Boatmatch offer? Well apart from understanding the product, qualifying buyers, dealing with legal and VAT issues, banks and arranging all aspects of the sale, we offer nothing. On many occasions, we facilitate deliver to her new owners, many times to interesting locations.
"Arranged or accompanied viewings" = Accompanied by whom?
Where possible, Boatmatch attend viewings. In my experience, most owners are more than happy to be at a viewing with a qualified buyer. Our customers are always happy to do the viewing; they just want us to deal with the sale.
"Brokers fee by arrangement" = I thought they were contracting to be your broker?
Our terms are clear on the boatmatch web site.
"£2,000 minimum fee" = don’t even think of wasting our time unless your boat is worth at least £50,000.
Boatmatch happy to sell a lower value boat, but at a fair fee. This is no different to the majority of brokers who operate a minimum fee policy.
Boatmatch are British Marine Federation and a Boat Retailer and Brokers Association member, Simon Walworth is a serving member of the BRBA committee.