Yacht and ferry collide

[tsekul]

Ahhhh!
That explains my nightmare journey back home last night.

Viewing boats on IOW got to the car ferry terminal and realised we would have time to make it to the fast jet service, as it was about 50 mins till the car ferry left, so hot footed it across the chain ferry and got there to find out the service had been suspended so hot footed back to the car ferry but we missed the 5:30 so had to wait till the 6:30 . Should have just stayed where we were and got the 5:30. Got home after midnight in the end.

It was blowing really bad the car ferry captain said 40 knts I think, in the channel.

When we were waiting for the chain ferry for the second time, a yacht 35' ish was trying to get out under engine. was barely moving when it got to just past the chain ferry, it ground to a halt then very slowly start going backwards, as the ferry was ready to leave, strong onshore, incoming tide. He bailed, and the Bow flew round so quick, he was pretty close the ferry! and he was out of view in seconds!

 

[l'escargot]

In days of yore the Red Jets used to get off the berth by reversing on a warp, which meant they described a very tight semi-circle instead of being a bit more linear in their movements. If they still do this, and if chummy in the yacht was unfamiliar with the manoeuvre he may have been somewhat surprised to find 350 tons of hydrofoil spinning like a top in front of him.

They are no longer hydrofoils and they now effectively u turn on arrival so that they berth portside to, facing the right way for departure. They do spin well though with the twin jets, turning in their own length and moving sideways to the dock. I have never seen them being anything other than controlled and competent - unlike the fastcats which seem to wallop Ryde pier with amazing regularity.

 

[Plevier]

Taking a vessel out of service to check is normal practice.
Replacing the crew is normal practice.

Once every thing checked and found in order back in to service.

While it may seam daft. Its standard operating procedure for most transportation companies, planes, trains, buses or ships

I don't recall that big thing going back to port after tangling with the yacht in the Cowes Week incident. It just carried on AFAIK.

 

[Giblets]

I don't recall that big thing going back to port after tangling with the yacht in the Cowes Week incident. It just carried on AFAIK.

It was actually on it's way into Fawley when the incident happened so I suspect it would have been checked when it docked.

 

[jrc1983]

I don't recall that big thing going back to port after tangling with the yacht in the Cowes Week incident. It just carried on AFAIK.

Seeing as it was inbound for Fawley - which let's remember is only 4 miles away from the incident - and had loaded in the Northern North Sea, do you think it would have been sensible for a fully loaded tanker carrying crude oil to try and execute a 180 degree turn in the confined waters off the Brambles amongst many hundreds of potential roadkill then to steam another 16 miles out to the Nab Tower again?

 

[Plevier]

Sorry thought it was outbound!

 

[lustyd]

There is also a bylaw prohibiting sailing between the high speed terminal and UKSA - if the yacht was sailing then it was on the verge of breaching this, as a minimum.

Is there? I searched the Cowes bylaws for the word sail recently and didn't find this, can you tell me which it is? (I'm not disagreeing, if there is one I'd like to know!)

 

[lw395]

Is there? I searched the Cowes bylaws for the word sail recently and didn't find this, can you tell me which it is? (I'm not disagreeing, if there is one I'd like to know!)

It may be like the Portsmouth harbour entrance where the rule is 'yachts fitted with engines must use them' or some such, cunningly worded to thwart your search.....?

 

[lustyd]

It may be like the Portsmouth harbour entrance where the rule is 'yachts fitted with engines must use them' or some such, cunningly worded to thwart your search.....?

I'm aware of the Portsmouth one, but Cowes I was sure sailing was OK but recommended against near the ferry.

 

[lenseman]

Is there? I searched the Cowes bylaws for the word sail recently and didn't find this, can you tell me which it is? (I'm not disagreeing, if there is one I'd like to know!)

It is Rule 9 in the LNtM Cowes.

Also Rule 13 of the new Regs which came into force in April this year:

13. Sailing vessels fitted with mechanical propulsion shall proceed under power when navigating in any part of the Main Harbour Fairway

http://www.cowesharbourcommission.co.uk/pages/notices



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[lw395]

Rule 9 of which regs?
Not the LNTM or the general directions.

The link you gave also says:
Vessels under sail especially in light winds may be unable to comply with Rule 9, for this reason sailing vessels when navigating in or near the main fairway are reminded to have their engines, if fitted, ready for immediate use.

I take that to mean you may sail, but you should have the engine either running or know it will start on the button..
But the LNTM imply it's OK to sail.

 

[lenseman]

Rule 9 of which regs?
Not the LNTM or the general directions.

The link you gave also says:
Vessels under sail especially in light winds may be unable to comply with Rule 9, for this reason sailing vessels when navigating in or near the main fairway are reminded to have their engines, if fitted, ready for immediate use.

I take that to mean you may sail, but you should have the engine either running or know it will start on the button..
But the LNTM imply it's OK to sail.

I meant to say COLREGS Rule 9b: "vessels under 20 metres in narrow channels shall not impede . . . . ". Says it all really.



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[marklucas]

Is there? I searched the Cowes byelaws for the word sail recently and didn't find this, can you tell me which it is? (I'm not disagreeing, if there is one I'd like to know!)

Yes and the Harbourmaster pointed it out to me. He was very polite.

I'd been sailing with a bunch of mates - across the Channel Bank Holiday weekend and we'd landed up in Lymington on the last night - so after curry in the Lal Quila and a few night caps we decided on a late start the next morning on the way back to Hamble, with a quick pit stop at The Folly. High water with little flow and wind in the right direction - let's sail in! Put the engine on as we entered the channel (as per COLREGs and common sense) and so we continued. Above UKSA the wind shadow of the island meant we were fast loosing way so into gear and up to The Folly onto the pontoons on the west side.

The Harbourmaster ferried across to The Folly and then asked who the Master of the Vessel was. Well that was me. He pointed this byelaw out but agreed with my point that I had not been navigating irresponsibly. End of.

I've just checked the Cowes Harbour Commission set of General Directions and Byelaws and this condition is not listed. Perhaps he was trying to discourage me from doing it - or it's just not listed?

I might give them a ring tomorrow.

 

[lustyd]

It is Rule 9 in the LNtM Cowes.

Also Rule 13 of the new Regs which came into force in April this year:

13. Sailing vessels fitted with mechanical propulsion shall proceed under power when navigating in any part of the Main Harbour Fairway

http://www.cowesharbourcommission.co.uk/pages/notices



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Thanks, this is bloody well hidden! It's not in the bylaws or the chain ferry section of the website, so the only way we'd know about it is to read the entire history of LNTMs. Although in theory we all should, I feel the reality is that few are likely to (I certainly don't!) for every trip to every harbour. I'm baffled by why this wasn't promoted into the full harbour bylaws immediately?!

 

[onesea]

I meant to say COLREGS Rule 9b: "vessels under 20 metres in narrow channels shall not impede . . . . ". Says it all really.

I am not certain this rule applies here.

Some one F*&ked up, broached hit side of ferry. He was not planning on broaching, it happens he became not under command at a very bad moment.

If he had been motoring and had steering failure would it of been any different?

What chain of events lead to him to thinking he should be there under sail is different story...

 

[Jim@sea]

You have to remember that where accidents occur involving things carrying passengers and it is not the fault of the driver/captain/pilot and the bus/train/plane has to be taken out of service the Insurance Claim is based on the loss of revenue which the affected vehicle would have earned working to full capacity running for 24 hours a day.

 

[snooks]

So the ferry had to return to port and disembark all passengers? FFS, Red Funnel, lets make a big fuss about this shall we?

Ok, let's think this one through...

Boat, dunno what size, say 35 ft, hit ferry, dunno how worst case T boned bent pulpit, Cqr on the bow, may be a ss prodder for an asymmetric? Boat travelling at say 5 knots broaches and hits aluminium hull and punches a small hole in the side, how about catches a wire on the inside. Water leaked onto electrics, fly by wire engine controls go fizz as its going past one of the refueling jetties off fawley, red jet goes off course into the jetty where petrochemicals are being loaded unloaded, Big Bang! Hundred or so people killed, sunk oil tanker, oils slick covering the Solent, killing sea and bird life and generally causing merry hell with everyone's freshly painted boot tops, and all because the skipper didn't turn around....

Hmmmmmm

 

[Giblets]

Had similar thoughts following Sandyman's post #13. I'm sure that had his nearest & dearest been on the ferry which may have foundered following the collision and had not been checked he would have been screaming blue murder for heads to roll.

 

[lustyd]

I meant to say COLREGS Rule 9b: "vessels under 20 metres in narrow channels shall not impede . . . . ". Says it all really.



.

This says nothing about this situation. The Red Jet is not restricted to the channel as it's not got a big draft. Cowes has ample room either side for smaller yachts to sail without grounding. Finally, sailing does not prevent a boat from keeping out of the way of something constrained by draft, so 9b just isn't relevant to this incident at all.

EDIT - please lets not make this a Colregs thread!

 

[Malabar]

There is also a bylaw prohibiting sailing between the high speed terminal and UKSA - if the yacht was sailing then it was on the verge of breaching this, as a minimum.

As others have pointed out, there is nothing in the General Directions (that replace the old Byelaws) preventing you from sailing up the river. However there is an LNTM that advises strongly against it. Reason: somebody might crash gybe; loose control and Tee-bone the Red Jet.