Wrapping vs Painting

[MapisM]

The above is total nonsense. Ferretti cream boats in that picture are normal bare gelcoat, not painted.

I'm also pretty sure that Ferrettis were moulded with gelcoat at least up to the mid naughties, but my understanding of what PF said is that they changed somewhat recently.
Since it's obviously impossible to tell from the pic, did you see one of their newer boats in flesh and noticed that it was not painted?
Just curious.

 

[jfm]

That's by the by. I'm just reporting facts, and I'm quite happy if anyone wishes to doubt/disbelieve/argue the opposite. I just didn't want an incorrect statement like that on here to be left uncorrected.

 

[MapisM]

I get that, and I'm far from saying the opposite.
Just wondering what was the source of your facts, 'cause other than looking (carefully!) at the real thing, I can't think of another way to tell for sure.

 

[Portofino]

I get that, and I'm far from saying the opposite.
Just wondering what was the source of your facts, 'cause other than looking (carefully!) at the real thing, I can't think of another way to tell for sure.

It’s what I was told in September this year at that show by a senior experienced guy .
They take clients to the factory all the time .
I did qualify the answer pointing at a beige boat and was told ALL inc those beige .
I new Pershing have been painting and some Riva .
I thought the Itama 62 I went out on was trad Blue gel coat ....why would I think not ?
The 75 they exhibited was indeed beige ......painted as was the blue 62 very much to my surprise.
It’s to do with spotting defects , air bubbles etc in the “infusion “ process .Sort of best practice in quality assurance hull structure wise .
Once happy it’s painted .

Minor stuff like fly bridge parts , cockpit seating , corner units may be gel coat , but the hulls are all painted inc the Ferretti beige as said it’s a reflection of the new across the range homologising of production and driving up quality.

 

[Assassin]

The waterline stripe Is usually a wet applied transfer. Wrap is self adhesive. I don’t know the technical differences between the two.

However ... a strip is small and are waterline level well away from enemy number 1 which is ropes.

As I said before for a stripe wrap maybe ok. For a whole hull based on expensive experience it isn’t !

Sailing boats have logo type wraps. I suspect there hide stains and colour variations better. Sailing boats are also a different shape that I would think gives better rope protection.

They say it lasts 7 years. It really doesn’t.

The fairline f33 was wrapped. They unwrapped it after a few days as it was coming off and looked terrible.

Another forum member wrapped his hard top. It has failed also which is well away from water and ropes - but of course gets a nice sun baking.

It was designed for cars not boats!

They are different, for a boat wrap type such as a waterline stripe is wet applied but these are manufacturer applied and use a solvent to wet them out and the adhesive sticks (once dried) to form a waterproof adhesive which will not come off when constantly submerged in water.

Ordinary wrap is water based and they spray it with soapy water instead of solvent and once dried it is not designed to be immersed in water as the water softens the adhesive and it comes off, it is only designed for intermittent immersion such as rain on cars or lorries.

 

[Portofino]

I get that, and I'm far from saying the opposite.
Just wondering what was the source of your facts, 'cause other than looking (carefully!) at the real thing, I can't think of another way to tell for sure.

I had to re look carefully at the blue 62 , I mean at all the places where the paint would end ,and do a finger nail test .....but honestly I could not tell it was painted .The guy is a director btw and took some pleasure of me complimenting the final finish , it fooled me .
The insides of the hull are sprayed white btw.
He said if I was to buy one there would be plenty of opportunities to visit the factory and witness the painting and other stuff .
I got the impression that s encouraged and many take then up on factory visits .....it’s normal .
Again the 75 , they called it yellow but it was Ferretti beige .....I would have never known it did look like gel coat .

Interesting to know which paint brand they use and how they apply it .

 

[jfm]

You mean 62 and 75 itamas? I said the ferretti cream boats (you know, the flybridge boats like 920, 850, 670, 450, etc) are unpainted, not the itamas.

 

[Portofino]

You mean 62 and 75 itamas? I said the ferretti cream boats (you know, the flybridge boats like 920, 850, 670, 450, etc) are unpainted, not the itamas.

I mean all of them in the FG range inc Ferretti . Furthermore you can’t tell to the eye ....
To be clear inc the “ beige “ Ferretti in those .

“Hull, deck and superstructure are laminated by infusion, a technological choice that allows the yard to guarantee more accurate manufacture and a finish with higher quality paintwork than the classic gel-coat, as well as lower weight, more structural robustness and greater composite longevity.”


http://www.barchemagazine.com/en/ferretti-780-2/

The conversation arose on two levels

1- the quality feel and components like teak , door shuts , lack of vibration etc of the exhibited Itama both of them .....I was told the whole range inc the CRN and Custom line were quality assured the same way . Sort of top to bottom .
2- Then the colours , conversations went along the lines of me mentioning I’d seen a yellow 62 and white 75 and now at this show a yellow 75 , ......to be told I could have one any colour as it’s sprayed on ......after the hulls been checked over after popping out the master plug .

It goes naked through a QA process that can’t be done to same standard if it was gel coat .
Then painted .
“ Even the blue ones “ .....Yes
“ All you can see “ as the director waved his arm around the Yacht club .
“ Even the beige Ferretti s “ I enquired ....
“ Yes ,everything here “ .
To be fair as I said on another thread one or two Ferretti s there were paler then the others .Not as dark beige you could see that .
Anyhow as said they have homologated the production technique and base engineering across the range . You did realise Custom line are all painted as well ? ,120 140 etc .

If they ( Ferretti models ) weren’t painted they would be the only brand that uses trad gel coat colour .Cant be certain of exactly when they completed the transition moving everything to “ infusion “paint .
I think we both agreed they been painting Pershing / Riva / for a over decade .
Early gel coated Miochi fade badly in the Med sun .....they are painted now .
Now Ferretti beige and Itama blue are paint .I could not tell .

Barche is a good read btw :encouragement:

 

[MapisM]

“Hull, deck and superstructure are laminated by infusion, a technological choice that allows the yard to guarantee more accurate manufacture and a finish with higher quality paintwork than the classic gel-coat, as well as lower weight, more structural robustness and greater composite longevity.”

I had a look also at the original IT version, because saying that painting is "allowed" by infusion is obviously total bollocks.
The translation is correct, though. Leaving aside the fact that also a traditionally laminated hull could obviously be painted, also in the IT version the article is adamant that the 780 is painted, fwiw.

 

[petem]

On the subject of painting, am I correct in recalling that some people have had perfectly satisfactory results using a roller?

 

[MapisM]

"Satisfactory" is subjective, so depending on where you set the bar I guess the answer could be yes.
But I very much doubt that you can achieve a gelcoat-like finishing by roller.

 

[jrudge]

I suspect you can if

a. you do it right ( which won't be simple)
b. flat it off after with appropriate wet and dry

 

[Portofino]

Ps don’t shoot the messenger here ,....Me .

 

[TheOrs]

On the subject of painting, am I correct in recalling that some people have had perfectly satisfactory results using a roller?

I believe the technique used is called roller & tip. The paint is 'leveled' post roller whilst still wet by dragging a thinners soaked brush along it. Can give a pretty good result if done correctly.

 

[petem]

I believe the technique used is called roller & tip. The paint is 'leveled' post roller whilst still wet by dragging a thinners soaked brush along it. Can give a pretty good result if done correctly.

It is indeed. It's an application technique for Awlgrip according to YouTube.

 

[MapisM]

Well, you live and learn, as they say.
So far, I've yet to come across one single yard that did not recommend spray for the best results.
Porto, did that Ferretti chap mention also the painting technique, possibly?
Just curious.

 

[Portofino]

Well, you live and learn, as they say.
So far, I've yet to come across one single yard that did not recommend spray for the best results.
Porto, did that Ferretti chap mention also the painting technique, possibly?
Just curious.

No , I assume spray .
The three yards I have visited in my area all spray .One Amico finishes super yachts . It’s got a 800 ton lift .
I’ve only been researching the back ground in a casual way ....cold calling , turning up at two , email and personal visit accepted at one in Savona .
It did ask one , who’s work looked again indistinguishable from gel coat which paint he used .
Something got lost in translation he said they used all the brands it’s up to the owner to pick .

Anyhow the FG stuff inc the beige Ferretti s are also indistinguishable from gel coat ........I did try lads and look very hard and keep repeating “ are you sure “ to the director chap as he smiled at my as did my forensic examinations .
Did not find anything negative , or off putting or heard anything from new owners of FG group .

I,am currently completely neutral on which paint brand ......still got my antenna up

Getting the feeling it’s the preparation and technique playing it ( spray ) that gives the results .
One yard had a huge infra red oven they used like a car booth .
There’s a lot of variables on the final finish over saying brand X is better then Y .
That’s where iam with regard to having my Itama painted .

“Slowly slowly catch a monkey “

 

[TheOrs]

I think the big yards/professionals that have the necessary equipment spray & the small yards/DIY do roller & tip.
Spray gives a better finish; roller & tip supposedly more durable.

(I'm thinking about doing my boat (DIY). I was going to try re-gelling but my research seems to show that roller & tip is the best bet for a DIYer)

 

[BruceK]

I think the big yards/professionals that have the necessary equipment spray & the small yards/DIY do roller & tip.
Spray gives a better finish; roller & tip supposedly more durable.

(I'm thinking about doing my boat (DIY). I was going to try re-gelling but my research seems to show that roller & tip is the best bet for a DIYer)

My yard grumbles over spray. I had to tent my boat when getting the stripes redone by spray to protect neighbouring boats.

 

[bobtooke]

I've "roller & tipped" my boat using International acrylic and the finish is just as shiny as polished gelcoat. All you need to do is two or three coats then flat and polish. Perhaps a little more work than spray but means it can be done without spray equipment or facing the wrath of neighbours.