Wow! Now your crew are actually employees - or so says a lawyer!

[JumbleDuck]

I'd be a bit careful in supporting this outrageous claim. It may come back to bite you http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...-come-from-the-Solway-to-the-Clyde&highlight=..

If anyone is kind enough to join me (down the river at Kirkcudbright at 7am tomorrow, maybe) then I would certainly not consider myself to have any right to treat that person discourteously.

How do you know the claim is outrageous, by the way?

 

[JumbleDuck]

HM Revenue and Customs

I can't get overtime or bonus payments on top of my salary. I'm pretty sure I'm employed, though.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Surely that's exactly what she's arguing by going to a tribunal? A cake and eating situation.

The cake having and eating is surely being done by those who say that she wasn't an employee but was obliged to follow orders.

 

[SimbaDog]

Lucky she didn't fall overboard during the night!

 

[SLC]

Quoting hmrc guidelines is irrelevant as these only describe 'employment' for tax and nic purposes.

We could use 'employed' as in make use of, utilise, put into service etc. So in this respect was she employed?

Could it be seen as 'volunteering'?

As an example: if you asked a friend to help you clean your windows, you supply the ladders, the bucket and sponges etc. Do you have a duty of care for his welbeing as you 'employed' his services? I think so.

Again, the devil is in the detail(contract) and an employment lawyer of 30 years she will be an expert in this area.

 

[Lakesailor]

I am confident that RKJ will have access to better (legal) minds than hers.

 

[Sandgrounder]

I fail to see how anyone can decide, on the basis of the information given in the article, whether or not her claim is outrageous. Until more information is available all we are hearing is howls of outrage at the idea of such a claim by someone who has the temerity to be: 1 a lawyer; and 2 worse a woman.

When the tribunal hears the case there will be two issues to decide: was she an employee? you could make a respectable argument in either direction on this; and if she was an employee, did the conduct she alleges take place and if so did it amount to harassment? We do not know what she is alleging so we cannot know this until the case is heard.

So in the meantime all of the posturing in this thread, with a few notable exceptions, is uninformed nonsense; we should wait for the evidence before drawing conclusions.

 

[Lakesailor]

Don't be ridiculous. This is a great opportunity to howl with outrage.

 

[Sandgrounder]

Don't be ridiculous. This is a great opportunity to howl with outrage.

 

[jerrytug]

On 'Suhaili', R K-J carried a Lee-Enfield .303 rifle to deal with hideous deep sea monsters.

 

[Mrnotming]

I seem to remember that in a previous case involving a fishing trawler, each voyage was deemed to be a separate "adventure"
Cannot remember what were the ramifications of this judgement, but seem to recall that the action did not go the way of the plaintiff?
Will google a bit meantime!
Here is a tax based article link which uses the word adventure, may be of interest.
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j...=jEj1cCdrPBkKdCJu42JoHQ&bvm=bv.72197243,d.ZGU

 

[mjcoon]

There must be some foundation to her claims and subsequent actions. I do not believe a lawyer with 30 years experience would bring such a case( knowing the publicity this would attract)without grounds(career suicide?).

All publicity = "good" publicity?

Mike.

 

[Mrnotming]

http://www.baysailors.org/zzForms/Bay Sailors Liability Waiver 2013.pdf

It gets better, or worse depending on your level of responsibility!
Note: this is from another jurisdiction.But can one rely on a waiver, especially if a novice signs?
Expert forumite call?

All publicity = "good" publicity?

Mike.

 

[Sandgrounder]

I seem to remember that in a previous case involving a fishing trawler, each voyage was deemed to be a separate "adventure"
Cannot remember what were the ramifications of this judgement, but seem to recall that the action did not go the way of the plaintiff?
Will google a bit meantime!
Here is a tax based article link which uses the word adventure, may be of interest.
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j...=jEj1cCdrPBkKdCJu42JoHQ&bvm=bv.72197243,d.ZGU

That was the Hull trawlers case which iirc concluded that although Hull trawlers claimed that crew were signed, under a separate agreement for each trip, they were in fact permanent employees.

I don't think it will have any bearing in this instance but that will be up to the tribunal and will be the interesting part of this case

 

[SLC]

All publicity = "good" publicity?

Mike.

In the event of a win or settlement, yes.

 

[SLC]

http://www.baysailors.org/zzForms/Bay Sailors Liability Waiver 2013.pdf

It gets better, or worse depending on your level of responsibility!
Note: this is from another jurisdiction.But can one rely on a waiver, especially if a novice signs?
Expert forumite call?

The signing of most waivers is OK as long as both parties exercise good judgement.

It does not excuse nor cover inappropriate/unlawful behaviour/practice.

 

[Talulah]

I believe there is something in the Clipper Contract about participants not saying anything bad about Clipper. She could end up being sued in return.

 

[SLC]

I believe there is something in the Clipper Contract about participants not saying anything bad about Clipper. She could end up being sued in return.

Gagging orders

But would they sue?

It's a risky business suing over something somebody said, you risk more being divulged than has been already.

 

[alant]

In today's Independent - Woman employment lawyer is claiming harassment and bullying as an 'employee' on the RKJ Clipper event, even though she paid £40k to go.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-was-harassed-during-yacht-race-9644606.html


Ermm, unbelievable.

All crew, on Clipper Ventures, undertake an in depth training & selection process ( even though they pay).

It is probable, that she signed 'ships articles', as crew on a British Flagged Merchant Vessel.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/282298/mgn148.pdf

 

[penfold]

Gagging orders

But would they sue?

It's a risky business suing over something somebody said, you risk more being divulged than has been already.

I wonder if the clippers have much in the way of webcams or video diary stuff, like Day Melon and the other round the world types? The footage from the vessel she was on might be illuminating.