zefender
Active member
Re: wrong brand name
Surely it was a ben, not a bav??
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Surely it was a ben, not a bav??
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Would you rent your car to a 19 year old?
- Thread starter steve_cronin
- Start date
Aja
Well-known member
....And that you dont sever the casualty's arms and legs.....
Donald
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Donald
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NigeCh
New member
Wayfarer cruising ....
We made it across the Irish sea several times ... and back again with a Black's mountain tent and an Otimus stove.
We tried to sail to the Cuillins but only got as far a Port Ellen on Islay. The retreat (work holiday time) was more difficult.
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We made it across the Irish sea several times ... and back again with a Black's mountain tent and an Otimus stove.
We tried to sail to the Cuillins but only got as far a Port Ellen on Islay. The retreat (work holiday time) was more difficult.
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AndrewB
Well-known member
Optimus stove
Same here, that brings back memories.
I had a boom cover tent made out of pre-war green Willesden canvas, which leaked of course. As did the self-bailers. Made for a damp night's sleep squashed under the thwart.
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Same here, that brings back memories.
I had a boom cover tent made out of pre-war green Willesden canvas, which leaked of course. As did the self-bailers. Made for a damp night's sleep squashed under the thwart.
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NigeCh
New member
Under the thwart was a tight fit when at sea ...
We would always try to use the sausgage fenders to roll us upshore.
Those were happy days when we could sail as we pleased and learn about cruising as we pleased ... The best effort on a Wayfarer was a cimcumnavigation of Ireland via Skye with much beaching, much tenting and more than much searching for paraffin.
Our worst enemy in those days was ever getting soggier down sleeping bags .... Fabsil cured the boom tent problem, but didn't help the sleeping bags
I wouldn't swap those days for anything - They were magic.
Re the thwart: a crew came aboard with a hydrostatic lifejacket and tucked himslelf under the thwart at night in the North Channel... It went off and we had to go gad about with the sheet knife to release him ... It was only even with charts, a Sylva compass and a finger stuck up to the wind, that we found Portpatrick and we were convinced that we were either in Rathlin or Port Ellen.
Had we had a YM examiner aboard he would problably have done his nut in or gone apoplectic.
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We would always try to use the sausgage fenders to roll us upshore.
Those were happy days when we could sail as we pleased and learn about cruising as we pleased ... The best effort on a Wayfarer was a cimcumnavigation of Ireland via Skye with much beaching, much tenting and more than much searching for paraffin.
Our worst enemy in those days was ever getting soggier down sleeping bags .... Fabsil cured the boom tent problem, but didn't help the sleeping bags
I wouldn't swap those days for anything - They were magic.
Re the thwart: a crew came aboard with a hydrostatic lifejacket and tucked himslelf under the thwart at night in the North Channel... It went off and we had to go gad about with the sheet knife to release him ... It was only even with charts, a Sylva compass and a finger stuck up to the wind, that we found Portpatrick and we were convinced that we were either in Rathlin or Port Ellen.
Had we had a YM examiner aboard he would problably have done his nut in or gone apoplectic.
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peterb
New member
Re: Point of information
Twister Ken is dead right; there's no TSS between the Solent and Cherbourg. I always thought that the IMO showed great judgement in putting a gap in the TSS at just the right place to make it easy for Solent sailors.
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Twister Ken is dead right; there's no TSS between the Solent and Cherbourg. I always thought that the IMO showed great judgement in putting a gap in the TSS at just the right place to make it easy for Solent sailors.
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peterb
New member
Re: Early YachtMasters
I think that the RYA took over the scheme in 1973 Actually, for most candidates between 1973 and 1978 there was no practical exam at all.
In the early days (up to the end of of the RYA scheme the grades went 'National Coastal I' (roughly Competent Crew), National Coastal II' (roughly Day Skipper) and Yachtmaster. There were two routes to Yachtmaster: the 'Experienced Yachtsman' route and the route via RYA approved courses. Both routes required a minimum experience, but only of 500 miles.
The experienced yachtsman did a one day trip with an examiner. That route is still open today.
The route via RYA courses required you to take a Yachtmaster Practical course. Before taking the course you were required to have at least 250 miles experience, and (however much you had) if the instructor thought that you needed more he could require you to get up to 250 miles more before you took the final exam. But if you came up through this route then the final exam was a shore-based oral, and not the present practical exam.
The present system of CC, DS, CS and YM came in on 1-1-79. Or nearly did. So many people applied for the oral exam at the end of 78 that not all could be fitted in. As a result, I took my exam on 3-1-79, but my YM certificate is dated 29-12-78. My certificate must be one of the last issued under the older scheme, and is numbered 2646. So the RYA must have been issuing about 500 YM certificates a year in those days.
Incidentally, the standard required on the YM practical course was quite high. On my course, with eight students on two boats, only four of us passed. And another thread talks about the standards expected from Yachtmaster Instructors; out of the eight students on the course I was on, only three passed.
I think that the RYA took over the scheme in 1973 Actually, for most candidates between 1973 and 1978 there was no practical exam at all.
In the early days (up to the end of of the RYA scheme the grades went 'National Coastal I' (roughly Competent Crew), National Coastal II' (roughly Day Skipper) and Yachtmaster. There were two routes to Yachtmaster: the 'Experienced Yachtsman' route and the route via RYA approved courses. Both routes required a minimum experience, but only of 500 miles.
The experienced yachtsman did a one day trip with an examiner. That route is still open today.
The route via RYA courses required you to take a Yachtmaster Practical course. Before taking the course you were required to have at least 250 miles experience, and (however much you had) if the instructor thought that you needed more he could require you to get up to 250 miles more before you took the final exam. But if you came up through this route then the final exam was a shore-based oral, and not the present practical exam.
The present system of CC, DS, CS and YM came in on 1-1-79. Or nearly did. So many people applied for the oral exam at the end of 78 that not all could be fitted in. As a result, I took my exam on 3-1-79, but my YM certificate is dated 29-12-78. My certificate must be one of the last issued under the older scheme, and is numbered 2646. So the RYA must have been issuing about 500 YM certificates a year in those days.
Incidentally, the standard required on the YM practical course was quite high. On my course, with eight students on two boats, only four of us passed. And another thread talks about the standards expected from Yachtmaster Instructors; out of the eight students on the course I was on, only three passed.
AndrewB
Well-known member
Fast becoming a trip down memory lane ...
Yes, I had the large yellow inflatable roller/fenders too. It was still quite a drag for two people to haul a Wayfarer above the high-tide mark on a deserted beach. The price of failure was the dinghy would ground to the returning tide and pebbles would be forced up the centre-board casing, so that the board would not go down. Then it had to be got ashore and capsized to sort out.
My longest passage was from Southampton to Whitstable, done in stages.
Incidentally, a singlehanded Wayfarer with a British ensign paddled into Boulogne marina last Saturday evening. As a tent cover, it appeared to have a permanent hood like the roof of a convertible car fitted on the aft locker.
I always carried oars, paddling looked like hard work. Why he had elected for that unpleasant marina rather than one of the sandy beaches of the Cote d'Opal I cannot think. I hope the Wayfarer was SSR registered, VAT paid, and all the other legislation the Froggies insist on for the Brits but ignore for themselves. Isn't it now illegal in France to sail a Wayfarer offshore?
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Yes, I had the large yellow inflatable roller/fenders too. It was still quite a drag for two people to haul a Wayfarer above the high-tide mark on a deserted beach. The price of failure was the dinghy would ground to the returning tide and pebbles would be forced up the centre-board casing, so that the board would not go down. Then it had to be got ashore and capsized to sort out.
My longest passage was from Southampton to Whitstable, done in stages.
Incidentally, a singlehanded Wayfarer with a British ensign paddled into Boulogne marina last Saturday evening. As a tent cover, it appeared to have a permanent hood like the roof of a convertible car fitted on the aft locker.
I always carried oars, paddling looked like hard work. Why he had elected for that unpleasant marina rather than one of the sandy beaches of the Cote d'Opal I cannot think. I hope the Wayfarer was SSR registered, VAT paid, and all the other legislation the Froggies insist on for the Brits but ignore for themselves. Isn't it now illegal in France to sail a Wayfarer offshore?
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Jeremy_W
New member
Re: Lending Mirelle is quite another matter!
As a good Arthur Ransome fan you should know the hazards of lending a yacht to a 19-year. Said teenager ends up in Harwich hospital and yacht ends up in Flushing.
Besides which, doesn't your elder son read this BB sometimes? You could be giving him ideas.
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As a good Arthur Ransome fan you should know the hazards of lending a yacht to a 19-year. Said teenager ends up in Harwich hospital and yacht ends up in Flushing.
Besides which, doesn't your elder son read this BB sometimes? You could be giving him ideas.
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Peppermint
New member
Re: Experience is over rated.
Experience can equal doing the same thing, right or often wrong for years, while learning precious little.
When I get carved up by a port tack boat or watch a marina disaster it is rarely a young un at the helm.
A friend of mine had a skateboarding, WWF watching, typical yoof for a son. He decided for his gap year that he'd do a YM "zero to hero" it was the making of him.
He's just finishing his first season with Sailing Holidays in Corfu and has become a decent sailor and a first class boat mender. He's good with people and could drink for Britain but hey thats sailing. When I see a youngster giving it a go rather than sitting on his arse with his hand out I'm quite pleased.
I've been skippering yachts of all kinds since 1977 and when I started I was an average dinghy sailor. I conned a charter company and took four mates from Falmouth to Fowey and the Helford. What did I know? Not enough but we managed. I had my first sailing lesson in May 2003. What do I know now? Well a bit more. I know that cruising undersail is not a difficult thing to do but is more difficult to do well. I know that skippering isn't about sailing it's about leadership. I know that provided the youngsters view the sailing/skippering process as a constant learning experience they will develop into better sailors/skippers than many more dyed in the wool members of the old school.
As to your origional question my daughter 18 is just off out with my new Chart Plotter. It's got a big Mercedes wrapped around it but I expect to see it again as she's quite a good driver.
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Experience can equal doing the same thing, right or often wrong for years, while learning precious little.
When I get carved up by a port tack boat or watch a marina disaster it is rarely a young un at the helm.
A friend of mine had a skateboarding, WWF watching, typical yoof for a son. He decided for his gap year that he'd do a YM "zero to hero" it was the making of him.
He's just finishing his first season with Sailing Holidays in Corfu and has become a decent sailor and a first class boat mender. He's good with people and could drink for Britain but hey thats sailing. When I see a youngster giving it a go rather than sitting on his arse with his hand out I'm quite pleased.
I've been skippering yachts of all kinds since 1977 and when I started I was an average dinghy sailor. I conned a charter company and took four mates from Falmouth to Fowey and the Helford. What did I know? Not enough but we managed. I had my first sailing lesson in May 2003. What do I know now? Well a bit more. I know that cruising undersail is not a difficult thing to do but is more difficult to do well. I know that skippering isn't about sailing it's about leadership. I know that provided the youngsters view the sailing/skippering process as a constant learning experience they will develop into better sailors/skippers than many more dyed in the wool members of the old school.
As to your origional question my daughter 18 is just off out with my new Chart Plotter. It's got a big Mercedes wrapped around it but I expect to see it again as she's quite a good driver.
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steve_cronin
N/A
Nobody\'s criticising the \"Young\"...
...it's the validity of the qualifications the people in the article claim to possess that are in question.
Steve Cronin
<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion
...it's the validity of the qualifications the people in the article claim to possess that are in question.
Steve Cronin
<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion
Peppermint
New member
Re: Same as any other field
It's not the claims, after all they have passed the exams. That there's a bit more to it than passing exams is self evident. At least they're out there doing it. I reckon they learnt a bit on that cruise don't you?
If your saying that the experience requirements for YM qualifications is a bit light I'd agree. Having just taken the exam I might even hazard that it was a bit easier than I expected. The only problem arises when people think it actually means more than it does. But then you can say that about experience.
Skippers make daft choices & cock ups all the time. My point is that a gifted teenager is as capable of cruising as many a middle aged skipper. If your post wasn't a critism of age, why mention it?
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It's not the claims, after all they have passed the exams. That there's a bit more to it than passing exams is self evident. At least they're out there doing it. I reckon they learnt a bit on that cruise don't you?
If your saying that the experience requirements for YM qualifications is a bit light I'd agree. Having just taken the exam I might even hazard that it was a bit easier than I expected. The only problem arises when people think it actually means more than it does. But then you can say that about experience.
Skippers make daft choices & cock ups all the time. My point is that a gifted teenager is as capable of cruising as many a middle aged skipper. If your post wasn't a critism of age, why mention it?
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steve_cronin
N/A
Re: Same as any other field
Because the age showed that there was a lack of experience.
If you're one of these people who rubbishes experience and firmly believes that to be a valid stance, then please, if we come anywhere near being members of the same crew, identify yourself so that I can stay at home.
I had a similar crew a few years back but that was September and max of F4 was forecast. When the third one (he is now half way around the world in a 34 footer) went down with sea sickness before the Needles I abandoned the cruise and we went to Poole. THAT was experience.
Steve Cronin
<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion
Because the age showed that there was a lack of experience.
If you're one of these people who rubbishes experience and firmly believes that to be a valid stance, then please, if we come anywhere near being members of the same crew, identify yourself so that I can stay at home.
I had a similar crew a few years back but that was September and max of F4 was forecast. When the third one (he is now half way around the world in a 34 footer) went down with sea sickness before the Needles I abandoned the cruise and we went to Poole. THAT was experience.
Steve Cronin
<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion
macnaughty
New member
Well I've only just logged onto the site and had a chance to read everyone's comments. I am the author of the article and am probably guilty of not doing as good a job as I should.
I would respond that I (and my fellow YM trainees) did not particularly rate the YM course as being a good and sensible way to learn. However we could not come up with a suggestion of a better system that was acheivable within a realistic time frame. We took the view that the YM qualification was a bit like getting your driving licence and the experience was to follow. It did not mean you had just become the Nigel Mansell of the seas.
I also think that one of the main reasons we continued on this trip was to get the best use of the boat for the time we had it. A typical problem when everyone is a student and short of cash.
james macnaghten
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I would respond that I (and my fellow YM trainees) did not particularly rate the YM course as being a good and sensible way to learn. However we could not come up with a suggestion of a better system that was acheivable within a realistic time frame. We took the view that the YM qualification was a bit like getting your driving licence and the experience was to follow. It did not mean you had just become the Nigel Mansell of the seas.
I also think that one of the main reasons we continued on this trip was to get the best use of the boat for the time we had it. A typical problem when everyone is a student and short of cash.
james macnaghten
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