Would you claim salvage?

[prv]

You don't have an option for me to pick.

I certainly wouldn't have the idea of salvage in my head when going to help someone.

If I had incurred serious costs or inconvenience, I would hope that most reasonable people would sort that out appropriately, possibly after a gentle nudge if it's clear the need hadn't occurred to them (stressful and distracting situation, after all).

But if in that situation they instead acted in a wilfully ungrateful and obnoxious manner (and you do hear of it happening on rare occasions), then it may be that the thought would cross my mind of taking up what is after all my legal right.

Pete

 

[single]

Interesting question. In all honestly I would not claim a thing if someone was on board and needed rescuing. But if I happened upon an abandoned boat mid-atlantic and towed it I would give it serious consideration. The insurance company would be happy to pay the cost rather than a total loss and I would imagine the owner would be please to see the vessel back.

Same here. I have towed a few and once you get going it doesn't make much difference to speed.Although i was amazed that a 'friend'? refused to tow me once claiming it was too much for his 30 footer towing my 32 footer On all ocasions we have all been in company so no inconvenience.

 

[Babylon]

You don't have an option for me to pick.

Sorry, couldn't think of every eventuality and was trying to keep it simple.

...But if in that situation they instead acted in a wilfully ungrateful and obnoxious manner (and you do hear of it happening on rare occasions), then it may be that the thought would cross my mind of taking up what is after all my legal right.

But I thought (or am I wrong?) that you'd have to agree 'salvage' first before they took your line - and you wouldn't know if they were then going to be obnoxious.

 

[Searush]

It all depends really.

In general, I would just help & not expect anything but thanks.

However, once many years ago, my strop parted in NW'ly gale over the ebb & my pride & joy was stranded on a beach. I was 60 miles away & unable to leave work, but a colleague offered to sort it out for me - for a salvage payment.

I was shocked initially, but quickly realised that I was basically buying a service that would save me a lot of trouble & expense. My insurance company agreed with me & happily agreed to pay his claim, which was about 10% of value & a reasonable fee for what they had to do.

I've never regretted the decision, especially as that colleague was in need of the money at the time & the final damage to the boat was minimal thanks to his efforts.

So, salvage charges may not be in the spirit of leisure sailing, but there are times when it might be the right thing to do, especially if the insurance company accepts the benefit too.

 

[snowleopard]

Interesting question. In all honestly I would not claim a thing if someone was on board and needed rescuing. But if I happened upon an abandoned boat mid-atlantic and towed it I would give it serious consideration. The insurance company would be happy to pay the cost rather than a total loss and I would imagine the owner would be please to see the vessel back.

Good answer. I would claim salvage if I found a boat adrift and put myself at risk saving it, especially in the middle of an ocean.

In coastal waters I have given a tow to harbour on a number of occasions and never considered asking for money. Once the owner of the boat I towed into Salcombe settled my berthing bill for me which I was pleased to accept.

As I understand it, with the proverbial Lloyd's Open Form the salvage award will depend on the effort and risk put in by the salvor so a simple tow of a couple of miles would net you very little.

 

[prv]

But I thought (or am I wrong?) that you'd have to agree 'salvage' first before they took your line

I don't believe so. Otherwise the traditional spectre of the "helpful" fisherman suddenly presenting you with a hefty bill wouldn't exist. The requirement is the other way round - as casualty you want to agree terms (hopefully "free" or "a pint" or "£20 for the diesel") in advance to prevent the big claim later.

I'm very hazy on the actual rules, but I believe that if no agreement was made in advance, then as salvor you can name a price once they're in a safe harbour and then they can either pay it or dispute it, at which point a maritime court decides what the price should be based on your effort, the risks you took, the value of what was salved, etc.

Pete

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Under normal cicumstances I wouldn't dream of claiming salvage.

However, if their clapped out old tub had had any value I would have happily claimed it from the ignorant twonks I towed into port a couple of years ago. I didn't expect eternal gratitude, offers of cash or a lifelong friendship but I did expect at least one word of thanks. Not one word was even muttered. They were delivered to the pontoon whereupon they stepped ashore and walked off without even turning round to wave goodbye. I should have left them drifting towards the rocks.

 

[johnalison]

It's not a problem I had given any thought to, though I am aware that I am bound by law to assist a vessel in distress, which is what was posed in the question.

I have given the odd hand to a stranded dinghy or two and received scant thanks for my effort but I don't think it would influence my future actions. A lot would depend on the degree of distress and the attitude of the distressee.

Even if it were an expensive boat and the owner was decently grateful I would be content with some token such as a bottle of wine or less, but if I had been put to some considerable inconvenience, or even risk, and no gratitude was forthcoming I would be happy to claim all that was my due.

 

[david_bagshaw]

towed a few off mud banks over the years along with the various broken engine, wraped prop etc.

never charged, but without doubt the biggest suprise was the rudeness from an english yacht we towed off in the versemeer! (even had to launch the rib to get a warp across to him due to draft constraits) and the most polite a dutch motor boat we towed to zeriekzee from off stavinisse, on a very busy summer afternoon. It did have one nice side effect, however as the harb master found us a berth, and refused to accept the nights dues, along with the bottle of liquor the casualty brought along later that day.

 

[bbg]

It's not a problem I had given any thought to, though I am aware that I am bound by law to assist a vessel in distress, which is what was posed in the question.

I don't think that's right. People in distress, yes. Property, no obligation.

 

[Babylon]

But if in that situation they instead acted in a wilfully ungrateful and obnoxious manner (and you do hear of it happening on rare occasions), then it may be that the thought would cross my mind of taking up what is after all my legal right.

Under normal cicumstances I wouldn't dream of claiming salvage. However, if their clapped out old tub had had any value I would have happily claimed it from the ignorant twonks I towed into port a couple of years ago. I didn't expect eternal gratitude, offers of cash or a lifelong friendship but I did expect at least one word of thanks. Not one word was even muttered...

...never charged, but without doubt the biggest suprise was the rudeness from an english yacht we towed off in the versemeer! (even had to launch the rib to get a warp across to him due to draft constraits)...

Mmm, bit of a theme here...

Is there perhaps a correlation between those whose carelessness and lack of good seamanship get them into trouble and their 'carelessness' in not giving thanks, let alone a good bottle of wine, to the people who help them.

Trouble is, in life, every situation is different. Like Dylan I wouldn't ordinarily dream of doing anything but rendering assistance without a single thought of reward - on land as well as at sea - but an unmanned vessel drifting? people who put you to serious cost, inconvenience or even expose you to significant risk without any hint of gratitude? a commercial vessel who'd expect to pay if they were towed in by another commercial vessel? other scenarios where the ethical boundaries aren't immediately obvious?

Although not classed as 'vessels' under maritime law, I suppose if Dylan had the opportunity to tow in a jetski he could at least take the opportunity to invite the owner aboard during the tow and subject him to a little chat...

 

[Talulah]

Maybe forumites should carry a Lloyds Standard Form of Salvage Agreement
http://www.lloyds.com/~/media/2beea8c2236647619a09207e3d6f8c9f.ashx
(To be used when either the Salvage Contractor or requiring the services of such.)

 

[fisherman]

It all depends. If the vessel was abandoned and likely to become a total loss, and I went to considerable trouble to save it, that's what salvage is designed for, so you know you will be entitled to some recompense. You have to take responsibility for the vessel and prevent any further loss until you give it to the receiver of wreck.
Just towing someone in, if it's a long tow and out of my way I might suggest something for the fuel if offered, (and remember I may have to miss my day's earnings if I go in early). Your insurance excess should not apply to towage/salvage, so you could claim the fuel or other cost without paying your excess.

 

[fisherman]

Ie never claimed salvage - but have received a couple of bottles for rendering assistance.
.

You were lucky. I spent a nervous two hours saving an unmanned 26ft yacht which was up on a rocky bank in Helford, I only had an unreliable outboard and it was 19ft spring tide ebb. After £10 on phone calls to find the owner he said "I know I could never repay you so I won't try".

 

[RobbieH]

What if the ship you saved were uninsured and carrying $1,000,000,000,000,000 in gold bullion to a murderous dictator who was going to spend every penny of the gold on slaughtering masses of cute puppies?

You wouldn't be tempted to take your share?

I'd add a few quid to the pot. I hate cute puppies.

 

[BlackPig]

When I trained motorcyclist in the 80's I told pupils "You can help other bikers for two reasons: 1 you are a nice person and helpful, 2 you are selfish and by helping one person, another will help you one day.

Either way the world is a better place.

 

[fireball]

You were lucky. I spent a nervous two hours saving an unmanned 26ft yacht which was up on a rocky bank in Helford, I only had an unreliable outboard and it was 19ft spring tide ebb. After £10 on phone calls to find the owner he said "I know I could never repay you so I won't try".

Ah - the boat I towed in was manned - by a family including a couple of toddlers - with no wind or mech propulsion and at the north end of the Little Russel at the start of the south bound flow their options were already limited .. the local rescue service would've come out - and were offered when we informed the port control of our intentions ...
I think we must have towed them around 5-6 miles (tide assisted) - but we were heading to the same destination. At no point did I consider our boat at risk (other than through my own nav skills - or lack of!) But I do think they would've been in danger had they not accepted the tow.

 

[grafozz]

salvage ?

I had the chance to rescue 5 people in a stranded rib against rocks on the west coast of Kefalonia last summer , we saw a flare about a mile away and went to investigate . There had been no other boats in the area for several hours and it was getting late , so we were perhaps their only chance of rescue .
They had ingested some plastic into the engine and had no VHF and were out of mobile phone range .
So , we took them aboard and rigged a bridled tow line and took them into Assos where I managed to get them onto the quay .
They all jumped off saying "grazzi " and I damaged my stern gelcoat whilst letting them off .
We thought , Oh , is that it ? when the Italian owner rushed back with 6 really nice dolphin fish and said it was wrong that he should keep his days catch when we had " saved " him and his group !
I was delighted with that and we ate well for the next 2 days .
So in summary , I think that something should be offfered /given as it makes everyone happy without resorting to salvage talk , as other posts have said ,
it may happen to you one day !

 

[reginaldon]

You were lucky. I spent a nervous two hours saving an unmanned 26ft yacht which was up on a rocky bank in Helford, I only had an unreliable outboard and it was 19ft spring tide ebb. After £10 on phone calls to find the owner he said "I know I could never repay you so I won't try".

Enough to let the iron go deep in the soul!

 

[Lakesailor]

If there is a risk you and your boat might 'flee' before settlement is reached, a writ will be nailed to your mast and you can't go anywhere.

Bit 19th Century isn't it?
Tried nailing a writ to an alloy mast?