Would you buy a sunsail yacht

[Tranona]

Would you buy a second hand car from Hertz?

Yes. Rental fleets are used by manufacturers to get volumes of cars out on the market. Modern cars, like production yachts these days are sufficiently robust to put up with heavy use when they are new without compromising their long term reliability.

 

[Fire99]

Would you buy a second hand car from Hertz?

Personally I would say it's more like 'Would you buy an ex rental house'? and with the right survey and right price, yes I would.

 

[Wunja]

Would you buy a second hand car from Hertz?

I did and was quite happy with it 6 months old, 8k miles and less than 2/3rds of the new price.

What I wouldn't buy is an ex Sunsail resort boat - they are used by a different crew every day, who often have no experience other than dinghy sailing and they (the boats not crews!) are completely knackered.

 

[charles_reed]

I wouldn't marry a former prostitute, and so, I wouldn't buy a former charter boat.

It's ok to marry a woman who was much loved by her previous husband but got divorced for some reason, so I have no problem with used boats. But charter boats have been through the the worst treatment imaginable, troops and troops of indifferent sailors just having their week's holiday and then passing the boat to the next one, with hardly two hours of inspection between. I bought my present boat exactly because I couldn't stand to spend another week on an unloved, abused, beaten-up charter boat, with blown-out sails.

An interestingly objective answer from a dispassionate observer

 

[charles_reed]

My experience of charter boats is that they're usually well-maintained (frequently better than privately owned boats), sensibly priced (most owners value their boats much more highly than the market), but usually not sold until engine and sails are in need of replacement.

The only caveat to that is to exclude Kiriakoulis boats from the above observations.

It is essential, unless you are competent to do a thorough survey yourself, to get one done by your own surveyor before purchasing.

PS Was Tradewind Sailor referring to the same charter co. I wonder?

 

[truscott]

My boat is an ex-Sunsail one. I'm happy with the boat, but can confirm ALL the pitfalls mentioned in previous posts. **** Survey? Check! Boat stripped of all servicable/working parts? Check! Everything possible bodgied to keep her running? Check! Loads of dosh to set things right? Check! Even have the issue with worn upholstery mentioned previously too!

My biggest mistake was not flying out to look the boat over in person and relying on photo's from the Surveyor. Man that guy takes great photo's.

At the end of the day, I've replaced pretty much everything on the boat except the hull, keel, rudder, mast and engine (the engine was pretty much the only decent bit on the boat in spite of 5000+ hours to it). What I have now is a boat that pretty much measures up to every other boat of its class and age, but has new standing and running rigging, new sails, stackpack, new heads, holding tanks, plumbing etc... fridge, bimini, passerelle, fenders, mooring lines, stereo, dinghy, outboard, flares, service raft, etc... The list goes on. And it's only cost me about 20% more than buying a brand new model to get it there. All in all, it wasn't such a bargain. And NO I wouldn't do it again.

What I do have though, is a boat I'm really happy with. Perhaps I should have offered 20% more for the most expensive one available (and not ex-charter).

Hope this helps clear the rose tinted glasses a little (I ignored all the advice not to do it too!).

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Not much to add other than to say that many seen in the Solent each week are sailed pretty 'hard' each week.....like the accidental gybes we saw on Sunday in their regatta.
We have all been there but these boats get that sort of treatment regularly, so the price must be right.

So, if you consider the boat to be in good condition generally, account for the fact that in the next couple of years or so you have to replace or renovate everything that is attached to the barehull, and you still have made a clear 'killing' on your purchase, then good luck!
p.s. you may wish to sell again later on.... are ex charter boats easy to sell generally?

 

[r_h]

What I wouldn't buy is an ex Sunsail resort boat - they are used by a different crew every day, who often have no experience other than dinghy sailing and they (the boats not crews!) are completely knackered.

My boat is ex-Sunsail resort -- the price was very right. 10 years on I'm very happy with the deal, much of the gear has been replaced, but the Yanmar engine, which already had over 10,000 hours on it, is still going strong.

In the Med at least, boats that are being retired from the main charter fleet are often sold as 'ready to charter' and I believe have a one or two week hand-over period in which latent faults that become apparent can be rectified. Surprisingly only a fraction of buyers seem to take this offer up - and many buy boats unseen, without even a survey.

 

[jwilson]

Would you buy a second hand car from Hertz?

You might not know that the year-old car you buy was ex-rental - lots of rental companies buy in cars and sell on under a completely different name to XYZ CAR HIRE etc.

 

[Spyro]

You might not know that the year-old car you buy was ex-rental - lots of rental companies buy in cars and sell on under a completely different name to XYZ CAR HIRE etc.

Quite right. There is a large car auctioneer where I live and many ex hire and ex lease cars get sold there, you can attend the auction and watch all the main dealer buyers bidding on them. Next day the taransporters arrive with the main dealer logos and cart them off. Within a few days they'll be sitting on the dealer's forecourt.

 

[StevenF]

Would you buy a second hand car from Hertz?

cars have a far shorter shelf life and higher milage

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Hire cars aside, as other Posters have stated a survey and personal check with trial sail would be absolutely essential. I worked for a good few years in Yacht Charter and I would say that you can get a very good boat which is ex charter and in principle I would not disregard an ex charter boat.

I am not too sure about buying a Sunsail ex charter yacht. These last few years the Company appears to not spend as much as it used too. A yacht that is now 5 years old with them may now be less well maintained, than say they did 10 years ago. I also wonder if their fleet is now smaller but worked harder to maintain a high (or higher) charter usage rate than they used to have.

There has been at least one story in Yachting Monthly about a Sunsail managed yacht that was handed on to its owner after a major hole was repaired (nothing wrong with that) but Sunsail did not tell the owner this. It all sounded like sharp practice on behalf of Sunsail. You have to read the article to get the gist of the sharp practice and I believe that the owner was happy with his boat in the end.

Posters on here have alluded to the heavy use that these boats get and the upgrade costs to put it all right. I would be inclined to have a really close look at the second hand market first before considering a Sunsail ex charter yacht, especially later 1980 models which are getting to be very good buys now. The probability of additional unforeseen costs may be higher with a Sunsail ex charter than a late 1980s private yacht.

Just musing, not based on any Sunsail facts.

 

[black_sheep]

Obviously they are used more than a domestic yacht, but in my experience, both as an owner and charterer, they are professionally maintained and have to be at a good standard to be rented out. How many domestic boats are maintained professionally? I expect that most owner maintained boats are not aswell maintained.

 

[Courageous]

Mine is an ex charter boat bought from moorings in Nice. They had appointed a surveyor to do a survey which I believe may have been part of the agreement when the boat was released from service. I ran my eye over the boat and all of the points that the surveyor had highlighted and was satisfied. I purchased the boat and am still enjoying the benefits. I do have my suspicions about originality of some of the equipment as it happens. In fact some time after purchase the original owner (who I had kept in contact with) came to stay with us at our house. We showed him some pictures of our holidays aboard and he asked me "who's is that tender?" The beggars had swapped his very nice zodiac for my beaten up old zeppelin!

Condition wise my boat was in much better shape than a privately offered one I went to view in Plymouth that had obviously been left with a lot of water in the bilges (and 6 inches up into the saloon) for some time to have delaminated the internal ply as it had........

So there you have it - bitter sweet.

 

[SailBobSquarePants]

I have bought a used car from Hertz...

and it worked pretty well actually.

But with regards to boats, if you are looking at undertaking a very large re-fit of a charter boat, I would be more tempted to look for an even older, possibly classic boat, and restore her. They really DON'T build them like they used to, and modern technology (like bowthrusters for long keeled boats) can make venerable cruising yachts as easy to sail as a newer boat. And you get real teak and mahogany joinery, and character.

For some of us, that is worth a few degrees pointing ability upwind...

 

[Sans Bateau]

As in the title.
I fancy a Jeanneau, but sometimes see "project" sunsails and am tempted because I can get her in the garden for a year and strip her out and check everything over and spend the "saving" on what I want in there.......................but then...........I have been on school boats....................and.......................seen the bodges.!!

Depends if you prefer repairing boats to sailing boats. A couple of year ago a chap next to me, ashore, in the yard had been there for some time with some very unexpected costs with his ex charter boat.

Ex charter? No thank you.

 

[vyv_cox]

Two very different experiences.

1. We met a family in the Ionian bringing their ex-Sunsail yacht home from Turkey, where it was bought. We went aboard a couple of times and found everything to be in excellent condition, no problems with any of the gear except a small fridge operational defect.

2. A charter company working out of Kos sends boats out in very poor condition. They frequently break down, sometimes at Leros where we are berthed. The marina staff now refuse to repair them, as the company involved gives them abuse and grief for doing their best to get the charterers back on the water.

As has been said, check everything and assume nothing.

 

[TiggerToo]

Ex charter? No thank you.

Tigger was Ex Charter... nad we bought her to continuing chartering her (as well as occasionally sail her ourselves). She is great and I have no reluctance to boast that she is probably in better shape than she would be if she had been in private ownership. Maintenance MUST be done to a proper standard, and things that break get repaired. The income from chartering justifies and finances this. Moreover, the fact that she is always operational means that I know I can just go and sail and I know that everything is working (bar the usual wear and tear of normal sailing life).

So, would I go down the route of ex charter again? Yes, but have the boat seriously looked at, just like for any purchase.

 

[Alfie168]

Like buying anything there is so much common sense to be invoked.

I'm not sure i'd buy one of the Port Solent Sunsail yachts. Its not that there is that much wrong with them..I know as I sail one every now and again, its just that they get used quite hard and being used for corporate racing weekends they are bound to get more dings and bashes than your average yacht.

On the other hand a Sunsail boat that cruises gently round the Greek Islands or off Turkey as a family holiday floating motorhome is far less likely to be abused in its working charter lifetime, and all things being equal will make a wonderful buy for somebody.

In either case however you have to survey it, inspect it, sail it if possible and I'd take photos of anything on the inventory to make they don't swap it for cast offs.

On the other hand I expect the Port Solent boats don't sell for as much, but I have a suspicion that some of them go back to Jeannau for refurb before resale so maybe they are on some kind of leasing deal to Sunsail. I don't know to be honest, it was just a story I heard.

Tim

 

[Obi]

I would not want one from anywhere the bottom has coral or lots of rocks. They tend to have minimal electrics and no equipment. If you can be bothered to, the indian ocean islands sunsail operation sell thiers very cheap as its a pain to get them to anywhere from there. Same can be said of BVI ex-sunsail.

Nothing wrong with scratches and scuffs on the boat in or out. They appear to be a very affordable way of getting a fairly new boat.