Would it be madness

[[70521]]

a lot of talk about the Mk 1 eyeball, a very fine tool indeed, but please ensure if yours have a lot of hours on them to consider the 2.0 spectacle uprgrade

Is that with or without the 2.4 cool dude prescription sunglasses option?

I go to a fantastic independent opticians, can't be doing with the impersonal service from the high street chains, and we talk at length about sunglasses and UV light at sea.

 

[Tranona]

Is that with or without the 2.4 cool dude prescription sunglasses option?

No, they are only good as substitute Alice bands if you have unruly dyed strawberry blond hair.

 

[LittleSister]

First time I went to The Scillies (in a Hurley 22) I had a chart and a pencil … and I wasn't too sure about the pencil … got there and back! … :encouragement:

Me too!

I used to write the characteristics of the main lights, and key compass bearings, on the bulkhead next to the companionway of my Hurley, so they were always to hand and visible from the helm.

 

[john_morris_uk]

If you are going without AIS (which is perfectly ok) then I suggest a hand bearing compass is 100% essential. When assessing whether a risk of collision exists be patient. When the ship is still six of eight miles away it sometimes looks as though the bearing hadn’t changed at all. Keep watching and lots of the time it all sorts itself out, and you’ve still got plenty of time to make bold alterations of course and/or speed if required.

 

[[70521]]

No, hey are only good as substitute Alice bands if you have unruly dyed strawberry blond hair.

As a youngster I had very, very blonde hair it is almost all white now, but just as unruly!

 

[lw395]

The OP hasn't mentioned how many crew, if any ?

The most important aid would be a good autopilot, with a reliable electrical supply; yes when a teenager I sailed or motored across from Yarmouth / Studland to Guernsey / Alderney several times with hand on tiller all the way, but I'm not sure I could do that now at 56.

And good binoculars too.

A better aid is a reasonable crew.

 

[RupertW]

If you are going without AIS (which is perfectly ok) then I suggest a hand bearing compass is 100% essential. When assessing whether a risk of collision exists be patient. When the ship is still six of eight miles away it sometimes looks as though the bearing hadn’t changed at all. Keep watching and lots of the time it all sorts itself out, and you’ve still got plenty of time to make bold alterations of course and/or speed if required.

Well I wouldn't say 100% essential - I've used one as practice sometimes but crossing shipping lanes and just encountering ships over decades I find it no harder than driving through a complex traffic situation but at such a slow relative speed that it's far easier - and I've never used a hand bearing compass from a car. Having said that, you have the experience of many many new sailors who may have different levels of spatial awareness, whereas I'm extrapolating from a very small number.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I don't think an epirb is necessary for a channel crossing provided you have means to survive for an appropriate length of time until rescued and a means of sending an sos. I'd consider sort of necessary for crossing an ocean or even Biscay where you're likely to be out of VHF range and face a lengthy spell in your life raft.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I think a spare pencil would have been prudent!

First time I went to The Scillies (in a Hurley 22) I had a chart and a pencil … and I wasn't too sure about the pencil … got there and back! … :encouragement:

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I think a spare pencil would have been prudent!

Why is it that whenever you buy a box of pencils, nearly every one of them has broken lead witin the pencil?

 

[ghostlymoron]

Don't buy them from Poundland (if you can still find one) get Staedtler.

Why is it that whenever you buy a box of pencils, nearly every one of them has broken lead witin the pencil?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Well I wouldn't say 100% essential - I've used one as practice sometimes but crossing shipping lanes and just encountering ships over decades I find it no harder than driving through a complex traffic situation but at such a slow relative speed that it's far easier - and I've never used a hand bearing compass from a car. Having said that, you have the experience of many many new sailors who may have different levels of spatial awareness, whereas I'm extrapolating from a very small number.

I would be very anxious about being at sea without a hand bearing compass. Not just for risk of collision assessment but for the simple tasks like checking what I am seeing matches what the chart says (whether its electronic on a plotter or paper on a chart table)

After years at sea and watching thousands of ships approaching, I still take a bearing with a HB Compass (and nowadays cross check withe the AIS). What else is there to do when you are on watch? I can often hazard a pretty good guess as to whether a ship is passing in front or behind us or whether its a 'threat' and needs to be watched and appropriate action taken, but I often can't really tell with some ships for some time.

Even the AIS needs to be watched, as although the electronics might say that the CPA is 2 miles in 20 minutes, they might be altering course for a possible scenario that's out of sight to us with height of eye two metres above the sea and the CPA can change very quickly.

Fortunately we have radar as well, but it's not always turned on when its good visibility.

I would be very uncomfortable doing without a HB compass.

 

[RupertW]

I would be very anxious about being at sea without a hand bearing compass. Not just for risk of collision assessment but for the simple tasks like checking what I am seeing matches what the chart says (whether its electronic on a plotter or paper on a chart table)

After years at sea and watching thousands of ships approaching, I still take a bearing with a HB Compass (and nowadays cross check withe the AIS). What else is there to do when you are on watch? I can often hazard a pretty good guess as to whether a ship is passing in front or behind us or whether its a 'threat' and needs to be watched and appropriate action taken, but I often can't really tell with some ships for some time.

Even the AIS needs to be watched, as although the electronics might say that the CPA is 2 miles in 20 minutes, they might be altering course for a possible scenario that's out of sight to us with height of eye two metres above the sea and the CPA can change very quickly.

Fortunately we have radar as well, but it's not always turned on when its good visibility.

I would be very uncomfortable doing without a HB compass.

I'm not going to argue with your experience or your methods above which all make sense even if I don't do them myself.

On thinking about the way I do the tasks above I've realised that my ways are probably the same or more effort than using one of the handbearing compasses we have on board.

For ship tracking then as we are almost always on autohelm I don't have to worry about the boat weaving about so line up two objects on board with the ship if I'm in any doubt and watch whether it goes forwards or backwards against the line. For headlands and marks (as I don't like or have a chartplotter) I walk around binnacle and check where the headland is against that. Which now that I write it is actually slightly harder to do than using a compass hanging around my neck.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

There is a potential snag with Class B AIS (the kind fitted to leisure craft) and that is that it is subject to a potential lag. Your position is only broadcast every 30 seconds (if you're going faster than 2 knots; every three minutes if less), and it has to compete with every other Class B AIS in the vicinity for a "time slot" - there are 2250 time slots every minute, but a) Class A has priority and b) in a crowded area your AIS may have to wait for a time slot to be available. So, your position may show on another boat's screen up to several minutes behind where you actually are (something that has occasionaly been noted by people posting on the forum). Your AIS position will almost always be "behind" your real position by up to a cable at 6 knots; more if your signal has to wait for other transmitters' time-slots to time out.

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

I would want a good radar reflector. I recently took a fast cat across to France and, coming back, it was more than a little buttock clenching to be doing 35 knots in about 100m visibility. IIRC, a Condor cat took out a fishing boat doing the same thing not far from Alderney a few years back.

I once had a drink with a friend of a friend, in the Pandora. This guy was a hovercraft pilot and told us he could stop the thing from 65 mph in its own length … trouble was, he said, the 200 passengers would still be doing 65 mph!

 

[Jungle Jim]

I have crewed on cross-channel trips several times on a boat with no AIS or EPIRB. I only wished we had AIS once when a big ship got very close indeed. I tried calling him up but without AIS couldn't identify him. It was very squeaky bum time when we finally could read the name on the vessel, raised him on the radio and let him know things were about to get interesting :ambivalence:. Otherwise no issues without AIS.

 

[Homer J]

Dear All

From the OP. Many thanks to all those who provided advice. There were a few questions in the post and here are the answers

- I know to go to charts and pilot books to get passage information but there is no substitute for the experience in this forum
- the boat is a Jeanneau SO 37 with a life raft, gps, plotter, iPad navtex, hand bearing compass, dsc and handheld VHF and relevant up to date charts
- experience is modest. Day skipper with 900 miles on boat above (Falmouth return to Solent longest trip) say 15 hrs night sailing + a few med cruises and several wet, slow weeks in a Drascombe lugger.
- crew experience as above to competent crew,; wife, two argumentative teenagers and a scared spaniel.
- Emergency provision, biscuits and tea.

In summary, I feel the weight of responsibility for keeping everyone and the boat safe and I wanted the advice to ensure that I am acting responsibly. So thank you to all of you for providing practical advice.

 

[Sea-Fever]

Well I wouldn't say 100% essential - I've used one as practice sometimes but crossing shipping lanes and just encountering ships over decades I find it no harder than driving through a complex traffic situation but at such a slow relative speed that it's far easier - and I've never used a hand bearing compass from a car. Having said that, you have the experience of many many new sailors who may have different levels of spatial awareness, whereas I'm extrapolating from a very small number.

No, I've never used a hand bearing compass from a car either. I can see the similarity between driving and sailing here....I've not completed a cross channel passage yet but certainly in the Solent one sails like one drives....attentively! If I was to cross a shipping lane in open sea I would probably maintain a constant watch.....but maybe the length of time that full attention is required to cross a shipping lane is the issue here....so to ask the OP about crew is very pertinent....perhaps the OP's question could have been "if I am unable to maintain a constant watch whilst crossing the channel is AIS a necessity?"

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I'm interested in those who use a hand-bearing compass to determine whether another vessel is crossing or not. I've always either sighted against the land or other background object, or (when steering a compass course on autopilot) sighted from a fixed point on the boat to see whether the target moves against a point on the boat. Either is more sensitive than a hand-bearing compass, where at best you have an accuracy of 1 degree (usually less under conditions other than flat calm!). A degree is twice the width of the moon, so you can easily see changes in bearing less than that by sighting against other objects. Clearly sighting against a distant object is better, but under autopilot the course is maintained quite accurately, and sighting against a fixed point on the boat (usually a point well forward) it works satisfactorily as long as you can find a reliable position where you can fix the position of your head.

 

[RupertW]

I'm interested in those who use a hand-bearing compass to determine whether another vessel is crossing or not. I've always either sighted against the land or other background object, or (when steering a compass course on autopilot) sighted from a fixed point on the boat to see whether the target moves against a point on the boat. Either is more sensitive than a hand-bearing compass, where at best you have an accuracy of 1 degree (usually less under conditions other than flat calm!). A degree is twice the width of the moon, so you can easily see changes in bearing less than that by sighting against other objects. Clearly sighting against a distant object is better, but under autopilot the course is maintained quite accurately, and sighting against a fixed point on the boat (usually a point well forward) it works satisfactorily as long as you can find a reliable position where you can fix the position of your head.

Or two points on the boat - like a nearby winch and a stanchion post further away. But after this thread I'm getting out the HB compass to practice again - I've a 1200 mile sail starting next week so time to experiment again.