Wot About The Yotties.

[colind3782]

Am I right in thinking , a owner with a Southern Ireland passport who happens to live in the Uk with a boat Reg under SSR ( yes I know where the boat reg don't come into it as long as it's VAT paid) will still be entitled to travel/stay/sail in the EU Will still be the same has now ?

I hope so as I have British/Irish dual nationality. My boat is VAT paid in Spain as I bought her there and transferred from the Spanish Lista 7 to the SSR. As we have her in Empuriabrava, where we have a life, "nipping out of the EU" is not an option!

 

[sailaboutvic]

I hope so as I have British/Irish dual nationality. My boat is VAT paid in Spain as I bought her there and transferred from the Spanish Lista 7 to the SSR. As we have her in Empuriabrava, where we have a life, "nipping out of the EU" is not an option!

We know of a few people that done just that , got them self a SI passport as well as their British , With the intention of all goes tits up they can carry .

 

[colind3782]

We know of a few people that done just that , got them self a SI passport as well as their British , With the intention of all goes tits up they can carry .

I was Irish long before the "Common Market"

 

[Tranona]

Am I right in thinking , a owner with a Southern Ireland passport who happens to live in the Uk with a boat Reg under SSR ( yes I know where the boat reg don't come into it as long as it's VAT paid) will still be entitled to travel/stay/sail in the EU Will still be the same has now ?

Logic suggests so, as they will still be EU citizens. However judging by the way the EU has backed Eire on the border issue expect the issue of dual nationality will come up. The EU seems to have no respect for the long standing common travel area which predates the EU (established in 1923).

 

[sailaboutvic]

Logic suggests so, as they will still be EU citizens. However judging by the way the EU has backed Eire on the border issue expect the issue of dual nationality will come up. The EU seems to have no respect for the long standing common travel area which predates the EU (established in 1923).

Thanks for setting the record straight .
Now how can I get a German pass port before 2019

 

[TonyMS]

When we last enquired, about 6 weeks ago, the time to process an application for German nationality was 18 months. Of course, this probably has no bearing on the the time for a German national to get a passport.

Ideally, one should get residency in one's chosen EU country. My (British) grandson and his American wife have done this in Greece without difficulty. But they have an apartment, and the lack of an address may be a problem for yotties.

We met some Canadians who'd stayed in a marina in the Azores for a year, got residency, and were then swanning around the EU without let or hindrance.

Tony MS

 

[sailaboutvic]

When we last enquired, about 6 weeks ago, the time to process an application for German nationality was 18 months. Of course, this probably has no bearing on the the time for a German national to get a passport.

Ideally, one should get residency in one's chosen EU country. My (British) grandson and his American wife have done this in Greece without difficulty. But they have an apartment, and the lack of an address may be a problem for yotties.

We met some Canadians who'd stayed in a marina in the Azores for a year, got residency, and were then swanning around the EU without let or hindrance.

Tony MS

Only joking Tony , hope you and Ann are well , been a while since last seeing you both .

 

[Tranona]

I hope so as I have British/Irish dual nationality. My boat is VAT paid in Spain as I bought her there and transferred from the Spanish Lista 7 to the SSR. As we have her in Empuriabrava, where we have a life, "nipping out of the EU" is not an option!

You are in good shape, particularly aas boat has VAT paid in Spain.

My last boat had VAT paid in Greece. Sold it in UK and that was a selling point for the buyer as they intended to move it to the Med - and it is indeed now in San Carles.

 

[Heckler]

We have a similar problem with the variation that we are Spanish residents. Our boat is in Portugal (Algarve) and we had planned to bring her to a local marina in Valencia Province next year. However in the post brexit future if we are required to take her out of the EU (as other non EU flagged yachts currently have to do) then it might be better to keep her in Portugal as a trip out of the EU would be easier.

Michael.

La Linea, a couple of hundred yards to Gib and you are out or go to Smir in Morocco
Stu

 

[Tranona]

We have a similar problem with the variation that we are Spanish residents. Our boat is in Portugal (Algarve) and we had planned to bring her to a local marina in Valencia Province next year. However in the post brexit future if we are required to take her out of the EU (as other non EU flagged yachts currently have to do) then it might be better to keep her in Portugal as a trip out of the EU would be easier.

Michael.

It is not the non EU flag that requires them to leave the EU, but the fact that the boat is not EU VAT paid and is therefore in the EU under Temporary Importation which is normally limited to 18 months.

From what is known so far we do not know how British owned boats that are already VAT paid will be treated, but it seems that as a Spanish resident you will be free to move around the EU just as you do now.

My guess is that we will either end up with a complicated, unworkable set of rules (reflecting the many different combinations of owners and boats status) or there will be little change, at least initially, while we are still tied closely to the EU.

Today's buzzword is "fudge" and this will likely set the pattern for the next phase of so-called negotiations.

 

[nortada]

It is not the non EU flag that requires them to leave the EU, but the fact that the boat is not EU VAT paid and is therefore in the EU under Temporary Importation which is normally limited to 18 months.

From what is known so far we do not know how British owned boats that are already VAT paid will be treated, but it seems that as a Spanish resident you will be free to move around the EU just as you do now.

My guess is that we will either end up with a complicated, unworkable set of rules (reflecting the many different combinations of owners and boats status) or there will be little change, at least initially, while we are still tied closely to the EU.

Today's buzzword is "fudge" and this will likely set the pattern for the next phase of so-called negotiations.

I like fudge.

It is synonymous with inactivity so everything stays as is.

Endemic, in this neck of the woods and often in the best interests of all concerned.

 

[GrahamM376]

it seems that as a Spanish resident you will be free to move around the EU just as you do now[/B].

Move around freely yes, that's what I was told when obtaining permanent residence in Portugal but, I don't know if that then allows one to change country of permanent residence again. The boat bit doesn't worry me too much as an increasing number of Portuguese are changing flag to avoid bureaucracy and sailing area restrictions.

 

[lindsay]

A spiritual solution from your "past life"??

I finally got complete clarity by actually reading the official bumpf..

Joint report 8 dec TF 50 (2017) 19
Commission to EU 27

"The overall objective of the withdrawal Agreement with respect to citizens rights is to provide recriprocal protection from Union law and based on PAST LIFE choices where those citizens have excercised free movement of rights by the specified date".

So now we know, or will do. Its all based on our past life. So we all study KARMA.

As Nortada indicates its likely to be uncertainty, fudge and grey at least for 3 1/4 years if there is a transitional period, with nothing being decided or done.....fine for liveaboards??

 

[nortada]

Move around freely yes, that's what I was told when obtaining permanent residence in Portugal but, I don't know if that then allows one to change country of permanent residence again. The boat bit doesn't worry me too much as an increasing number of Portuguese are changing flag to avoid bureaucracy and sailing area restrictions.

Graham, Just to clarify your last sentence. The Portuguese are re-flagging to avoid Portuguese bureaucracy? Not much evidence at this end of the Algarve but as we both know, enforcement varies dramatically in different areas and is always on the change.

After the T2L saga was laid earlier this year, its all gone very quiet here. Suspect 'somebody' has had a 'quiet word'.

Marina de Lagos is as full as I have seen it for years. Local boat trips continue to run and the holiday season still continues.

The continuing good weather and a growing belief that the Western Algarve is one of the safer locations could be fueling this situation. It will be interesting to see how the Christmas holiday period pans out.

The local view is that they will not permit any changes post Brexit that could damage their increasing prosperity.

As said before, in Portugal it is not so much about the rules, as enforcement. Portugal fully endorses the Nelsonian Eye!

 

[Tranona]

Move around freely yes, that's what I was told when obtaining permanent residence in Portugal but, I don't know if that then allows one to change country of permanent residence again. The boat bit doesn't worry me too much as an increasing number of Portuguese are changing flag to avoid bureaucracy and sailing area restrictions.

The newspaper reporting on movement for EU resident British subjects has been contradictory. Earlier this week the report was that free movement would continue, but today reports say not. on the other hand EU citizen's rights include being able to bring children AND partners, even if non EU citizens without any conditions or time limit. This gives EU citizens greater rights in the UK than UK citizens (and until 2029 subject to decisions of the ECJ). No mention of similar rights for UK citizens in EU. In addition the limitation on social security payments etc negotiated by Dave will lapse.

So, not a fudge, but total capitulation.

Of course none of this is yet in treaty form but unlikely to change in the final deal.

Only bright star on the horizon is that Gove reminds us that once we leave our government will be free to change things it doesn't like, for example by seeking support through a general election. Bit pie in the sky, though as difficult to see a party, never mind a government willing to go down that route, even if popular opinion supports it.

 

[macd]

"The overall objective of the withdrawal Agreement with respect to citizens rights is to provide recriprocal protection from Union law and based on PAST LIFE choices where those citizens have excercised free movement of rights by the specified date".

So now we know, or will do. Its all based on our past life. So we all study KARMA.

Not wishing to disrupt your spiritual equilibrium, lindsay, but one of the remaining issues is the ambiguity of that passage. As mentioned earlier in the thread (posts #17 & 18), it fails to clarify whether a British citizen's right of residence in one EU state will extend to all states, as it does now. This is one of the matters 'British in Europe' is alarmed about.

 

[AndersG]

I suspect that a UK citizen resident in an EU country before Brexit will be able to move to a different EU country later. I find it difficult to believe that UK citizen that becomes resident in a EU country after Brexit will have that right.

 

[jordanbasset]

Not wishing to disrupt your spiritual equilibrium, lindsay, but one of the remaining issues is the ambiguity of that passage. As mentioned earlier in the thread (posts #17 & 18), it fails to clarify whether a British citizen's right of residence in one EU state will extend to all states, as it does now. This is one of the matters 'British in Europe' is alarmed about.

Agree, the current proposal means UK citizens living in a E.U. country prior to Brexit will have the right to reside in that country, the same as E.U. citizens living in the UK will have the right to reside here. What is unclear is whether those UK citizens living for example in Spain, would have the right to move to and work in another E.U. Country, for example France.

 

[Bobc]

Even though my boat is SSR, I paid my VAT in the Azores (on the way back from the Caribbean), so I assume that I won't need to move the boat out of the EU every so often. Is that right?

 

[sailaboutvic]

Even though my boat is SSR, I paid my VAT in the Azores (on the way back from the Caribbean), so I assume that I won't need to move the boat out of the EU every so often. Is that right?

I having problems working out why and boat vat paid no matter where it was paid would have problem regarding VAT anywhere in the EU .
Think back guys , Croatia before becoming part of the EU was charging VAT and those boats are now classed as VAT paid .