Worn winch self-tailors.

[geem]

This is a total long shot but may be an idea
I assume you mean that the ridges on the 2 tapered rings, or jaws, have worn away & lost their grip

Are the rings aluminium?- I assume that they are metal of some sort & not a carbon plastic. It would still work with plastic though
Remove the top disc
I would use my Mill, but you would not have access to one. So try this:-
Use a die grinder to machine the space between the ridges 2mm deeper. Thus making the ridges 2mm taller & more effective. Then put the disc in a lathe & reduce the flat shoulder 2mm, so the disc sits lower & closes the "V"gap. Then fit a 2mm washer on top to take up the slack. The top disc is already worn so it is worth a go. If it works you could repeat for the top of the main drum, but without the lathe work

You should be able to get an air powered die grinder with grindstones for under £50 then hire an air compressor from a hire shop. The whole process might be cheaper than buying replacement parts.
Any model engineer with a lathe will machine the shoulder off the disc for you in an hour. I would do that part for a beer.

The jaws are plastic. They are a fixed jaw and inferior to the sprung jaw of the Lewmar ST series of winches. There isn't much material to start removing some an expecting it to not fall apart

 

[Daydream believer]

The jaws are plastic. They are a fixed jaw and inferior to the sprung jaw of the Lewmar ST series of winches. There isn't much material to start removing some an expecting it to not fall apart

Then take some off the main drum. That will have more meat on it & only take 1.5mm off
If it is plastic you could do it with a dremel & a bit of patience

 

[geem]

Then take some off the main drum. That will have more meat on it & only take 1.5mm off
If it is plastic you could do it with a dremel & a bit of patience

To take any material off the main drum you need a lathe. You also need a mandrel to hold the drum in a lathe whilst you machine it. Not worth the effort. We now have a far superior winch with the sprung jaws

 

[Daydream believer]

To take any material off the main drum you need a lathe. You also need a mandrel to hold the drum in a lathe whilst you machine it. Not worth the effort. We now have a far superior winch with the sprung jaws

Having the gear to do all of that, with a decent workshop, I tend to forget that others do not have access to anything like a model engineer might have. One has to have something to do in the winter. Not all of us live in warmer climes

 

[Poignard]

Interesting that two contributors suggest adding an extra turn of the sheet round the winch.

When I had non- self-taiing winches I used to put three turns on and tail on the fall.

When I fitted self-tailers I was disappointed that the sheets were not gripped satisfactorily with three turns on.

I thought perhaps the sheets were of too large diameter and was going to replace them with thinner ones.

But then I tried putting only two turns on, and this solved the problem. The extra tension pulls the sheet deeper into slot so it is gripped better.

 

[LadyInBed]

To take any material off the main drum you need a lathe

That is one of the reasons why I suggested to put in a shim in #16. The other being that it's non destructive.

 

[geem]

Maybe seperate the jaws and insert a shim so that the sheet binds in slightly deeper?

That doesn't work. The jaws get so worn they don't grip anything. We tried different sized ropes and none work

 

[thinwater]

Also consider the location of the stripper and how far the line is wrapped around the jaws. It could have been rotated inadvertently during service.

The OP seems to have left us.

 

[geem]

Also consider the location of the stripper and how far the line is wrapped around the jaws. It could have been rotated inadvertently during service.

The OP seems to have left us.

It makes no difference once the jaws are worn. I tried moving that stripper in to every position to try and make the winch grip a rope. It didn't work

 

[Daydream believer]

Love to get my hands on one of those winches

 

[geem]

Love to get my hands on one of those winches

Even with a repair they are still not as reliable as a proper ST jawed winch. I have a perfectly good wave grip winch on the mizzen but the ST jaws are much better at dealing with various sized ropes

 

[sailorbenji]

Interesting that two contributors suggest adding an extra turn of the sheet round the winch.

When I had non- self-taiing winches I used to put three turns on and tail on the fall.

When I fitted self-tailers I was disappointed that the sheets were not gripped satisfactorily with three turns on.

I thought perhaps the sheets were of too large diameter and was going to replace them with thinner ones.

But then I tried putting only two turns on, and this solved the problem. The extra tension pulls the sheet deeper into slot so it is gripped better.

Recommendation is minimum 3 turns on the drum, then up over the feeder arm and into the jaws. The only "broken" winches I ever saw, were where the stainless feeder arm had been under so much tension that it deflected/bent inwards, crushed the stripper and eventually pushed against the rotating crowns, resulting in bound up winches.

In most cases (after some persuasion) the owners eventually admitted they hadn't had sufficient wraps on the winch. Just something to be aware of as a potential issue.

 

[Poignard]

Recommendation is minimum 3 turns on the drum, then up over the feeder arm and into the jaws. The only "broken" winches I ever saw, were where the stainless feeder arm had been under so much tension that it deflected/bent inwards against the rotating crowns and bound up the winches completely.

In most cases (after some persuasion) the owners eventually admitted they hadn't had sufficient wraps on the winch. Just something to be aware of as a potential issue.

Thanks. A good point, well made.

It may be that my sheets, which were fine with my previous winches, are of too large a diameter for the new ones.

I am reluctant to scrap them because they are very supple and easy to handle.

 

[thinwater]

It makes no difference once the jaws are worn. I tried moving that stripper in to every position to try and make the winch grip a rope. It didn't work

The message was for the OP.

Yup, stuff does not last forever.

 

[thinwater]

Thanks. A good point, well made.

It may be that my sheets, which were fine with my previous winches, are of too large a diameter for the new ones.

I am reluctant to scrap them because they are very supple and easy to handle.

Just tie on a short sample of several lines and test them.

When I got my new-to-me F-24 the STs didn't hold for beans. I found a retired spin sheet that fit perfectly in my might-need bin. It wa long enough for a pair of jib sheets. When it wore thin, I pulled out it's matching twin. I should get at least 5 years more out of that one.

Yes, size and type both matter, particularly when the jaws wear a little.

 

[johnalison]

Thanks. A good point, well made.

It may be that my sheets, which were fine with my previous winches, are of too large a diameter for the new ones.

I am reluctant to scrap them because they are very supple and easy to handle.

I think that normal practice would be for two turns during the initial pulling in by hand, and then an extra turn before putting into the jaws, at least, that is what I do. In very light winds I would leave it at two turns, but I do mean very light.

 

[geem]

I think that normal practice would be for two turns during the initial pulling in by hand, and then an extra turn before putting into the jaws, at least, that is what I do. In very light winds I would leave it at two turns, but I do mean very light.

I think it might come down to load on them. We use 4 turns in light weather and definitely 5 turns when we are hard on the wind. The 72ft race boat I was on as crew in the summer needed 5 turns regardless. Big hydraulic winches as well

 

[Poignard]

My boat is only 28 feet long so the genoa is not large. Also, she has a long keel so can be tacked quite slowly through the wind, allowing me to get the lee sheet in before any load comes on it.

 

[thinwater]

IME, the number of turns depends on the load (wind strength). There is a minimum load required on the tail to pull the tail into the ST jaws. If the load is too light they will not bite, so in light winds, 2 turns is often just right. 3-4 turns, the load on the tial is too little, and the rope may fall out or slip. As the wind builds, 3 or 4 or even 5 turns may be required to reduce the tail load and keep the rope from pulling through. The older the ST jaws, the more finicky. In effect, new jaws allow and contribute to bad winch habits.

Use too few turns too often and you will speed the wear on the jaw, because of the slipping. Additionally, minimizing grinding during tacks through good timing reduces wear.

I generally hand haul with only 1 turn. Two turns adds friction, and I will throw on more turns before the load becomes so great I can't hold it with one turn. Faster is better, because you get the jib in faster and grind less. Learn to throw turns on fast. No more than a second.

There is some subtly to getting the best from a winch.

 

[AndrewB]

Many thanks guys for good advice. It doesn't sound as if there is much mileage in trying to refurbish the jaws myself. Some interesting temporising ideas such as inserting a shim and putting fewer turns on the winch, which I might try. Otherwise it's off to Geem's Mr Fixit.