Worn boltrope won't fit into furling track

[DangerousPirate]

Have to say more I look at that first few cms - the more I think that could be the problem.

I have a 'rough' start to my genny and it catches in furler ... even as it passes odd joints in the alloy sections ... it wasn't the diameter of boltrope part - it was where the stitching and material end was where it should be narrow ... looks like OP's has had some rough use round that ....

This is what I thought, it MIGHT be that, but I am not even sure if the length is right, so not gonna test around. But it actually could be just too big a diameter, too. It's only a few mm.

If that is a twin luff groove Plastimo 811T then the luff tape/bolt rope should be 5mm. Your sail looks bigger than that.

Hard to tell really. I had the Genoa in one hand (which fits) and this in the other, and tried to compare and I didn't feel/see a difference. No calipers on hand when I did that. But it's okay.

Yes the newer Plastimo twin groove has much smaller hole for the bolt ropes than the old style which could easily take up to 7mm diameter.
so luff tape change requirement .

This is what I believe now, too. Pretty convinced that is the actual issue, because even if it's worn, I am pretty sure, I could have made it go in anyway. I am not exaggerating when I say I tried it for an hour just fiddling around, trying to lube it, trying to use tape over the worn edge etc etc.

Fit theseView attachment 151421, and ditch this shiteView attachment 151422

Better sail shape and controllable power, more reliable, and far more easily maintained for greater safety.
Anything else is less.

Not really interested in hank ons. As a solo sailor they're just not practical enough for me.

 

[Refueler]

Yes the newer Plastimo twin groove has much smaller hole for the bolt ropes than the old style which could easily take up to 7mm diameter.
so luff tape change requirement .

Older Plastimos were 6.5mm groove - but total boltrope + sail diameter of 7mm was normal ...... but woe betide any stitching / end that was even a smidgeon more than that 7mm.

 

[Daydream believer]

Fit theseView attachment 151421, and ditch this shiteView attachment 151422

Better sail shape and controllable power, more reliable, and far more easily maintained for greater safety.
Anything else is less.

For the un-initiated, can you explain, please.
How are they a better control power when sections between the hanks are unsupported when one eases the halyard for certain winds?
How is the power more controllable when one cannot quickly furl all or part of the sail when the wind suddenly gusts?
How are they more reliable when the pistons jam ( & they do, believe me)?
How do they add to safety when one has to go on deck to hoist & retrieve a sail rather than simply furl it? How is it that racing boats tend to go for foil systems rather than hanks, even if they do not have furlers?

I did have 2 boats with hanks, but perhaps you can explain where I went wrong, in having a boat with a furler, that has been a boon to my SH sailing over the last 18 years
I am intruiged

 

[Refueler]

For me ...... I prefer hanked for sail shape ..... but as I usually sail the boat while ' guests' enjoy the ride - a furler is better.

A furler sail is always a compromise ... and is not same as a foil system on a race boat ... foil system still relies on foredeck crew to change sail / work it as needed. The advantage of course is the 'sealed' luff to stay instead of gaps between hanks.

When I raced - I stayed with hanked .. I did discuss with my guys about fitting foil and we were unanimous No. We had seen others have jammed sails ... something that rarely happens with hanked.
I was glad actually - I was not looking fwd to modifying 8 foresails to fit the foil !!

Each has its For and Against ..... none are perfect.

 

[jamie N]

Hanks are safer for a start as the sail can be doused within 1 second. This on my boat is by having a downhaul line from the head to a block at the tack, and back to the cockpit. To douse the sail, release the halyard, and pull the downhaul.
End of, plus gravity hasn't ever been known to fail.
My hanks are brass and have never jammed. Maybe twice a year, I'll simply exercise the spring and it has never failed, this is called planned maintenance of course, but I should also say that I never take my sail off, as at the end of the day, I've a sail cover that I put over it, in exactly the same manner as a boom cover.

To reef it's a question of lowering the sail, clipping a carabiner to the 'reefed' tack & 'reefed' clew (which I've had added to the sail by Owen Sails), raising the sail and carrying on. It has never failed, and is quite simple.
I only ever sail single handedly, and have always considered it safer, as if one damages fingers, the sail can be taken down far easier than it could be on a furler.

 

[Daydream believer]

[QUOTE="Refueler, post: 8147751, member: 32157"

A furler sail is always a compromise ... and is not same as a foil system on a race boat ... foil system still relies on foredeck crew to change sail / work it as needed. The advantage of course is the 'sealed' luff to stay instead of gaps between hanks.
[/QUOTE]
For a period of 10 years I raced most weekends (did I really sail when it was snowing?? Must have been mad )as a crew on 3 boats with foils for sail changes & do not ever recall an issue. Two had a twin foil system & we sometimes hoisted one sail before dropping the other.( so long as they were not wet) A distinct advantage over hanks. It is also a LOT faster. But I do not see how a hanked sail gives a better sail shape. Modern laminate sails (which I have) do not stretch much on the luff so the adjustment is limited & is easily taken up in the foil.

 

[Daydream believer]

Hanks are safer for a start as the sail can be doused within 1 second. This on my boat is by having a downhaul line from the head to a block at the tack, and back to the cockpit. To douse the sail, release the halyard, and pull the downhaul.
End of, plus gravity hasn't ever been known to fail.
My hanks are brass and have never jammed. Maybe twice a year, I'll simply exercise the spring and it has never failed, this is called planned maintenance of course, but I should also say that I never take my sail off, as at the end of the day, I've a sail cover that I put over it, in exactly the same manner as a boom cover.
View attachment 151449
To reef it's a question of lowering the sail, clipping a carabiner to the 'reefed' tack & 'reefed' clew (which I've had added to the sail by Owen Sails), raising the sail and carrying on. It has never failed, and is quite simple.
I only ever sail single handedly, and have always considered it safer as if one damages fingers, the sail can be taken down far easier than it could be on a furler.

Having gone over the side whilst trying to control a hanked on sail during a gust. I think that anything to reduce deck work must be safer. I was also SH. I had 3 jibs. Storm, working & genoa. Your little jib would not have worked for me, the difference from storm to genoa being too great.

 

[DangerousPirate]

For the un-initiated, can you explain, please.
How are they a better control power when sections between the hanks are unsupported when one eases the halyard for certain winds?
How is the power more controllable when one cannot quickly furl all or part of the sail when the wind suddenly gusts?
How are they more reliable when the pistons jam ( & they do, believe me)?
How do they add to safety when one has to go on deck to hoist & retrieve a sail rather than simply furl it? How is it that racing boats tend to go for foil systems rather than hanks, even if they do not have furlers?

I did have 2 boats with hanks, but perhaps you can explain where I went wrong, in having a boat with a furler, that has been a boon to my SH sailing over the last 18 years
I am intruiged

You forgot to attach the declaration of war

 

[Daydream believer]

You forgot to attach the declaration of war

That would be "You are talking b..x"
I am trying to be polite & negotiate

 

[Refueler]

[QUOTE="Refueler, post: 8147751, member: 32157"

A furler sail is always a compromise ... and is not same as a foil system on a race boat ... foil system still relies on foredeck crew to change sail / work it as needed. The advantage of course is the 'sealed' luff to stay instead of gaps between hanks.

For a period of 10 years I raced most weekends (did I really sail when it was snowing?? Must have been mad )as a crew on 3 boats with foils for sail changes & do not ever recall an issue. Two had a twin foil system & we sometimes hoisted one sail before dropping the other.( so long as they were not wet) A distinct advantage over hanks. It is also a LOT faster. But I do not see how a hanked sail gives a better sail shape. Modern laminate sails (which I have) do not stretch much on the luff so the adjustment is limited & is easily taken up in the foil.
[/QUOTE]

Twin grooves are a way to get sail changes without the lack of drive while changing sail ... so not relevant here.

The sail shape is referring to furling sail where various solutions such as foam luffs ... offset cut to maintain shape when partly furled ..... the comment was not intended to be used for sails using a foil - where you would be changing sails to suit conditions ... it was for a single furling sail that is a compromise.

As I say - I have seen foil sails jam ... as I've had hanks been stubborn to open !

To say faster ? Sorry but would question that .... a good deck crew would have that sail on as quick or quicker than anyone feeding a foil !!

 

[Daydream believer]

To say faster ? Sorry but would question that .... a good deck crew would have that sail on as quick or quicker than anyone feeding a foil !!

To maintain forum rules on being polite, I will just say that I disagree & leave it at that

 

[Refueler]

To maintain forum rules on being polite, I will just say that I disagree & leave it at that

Given recent actions destroying good posts - I accept.

 

[DangerousPirate]

Just meet at a location in international waters and shoot it out
¯\_(ツ)_/¯