Working sail film

Good afternoon, thanks for putting it up.
LP deserves massive recognition (along with others such as Cunliffe and D and A Purser of Classic Sailing ) for seeding the reborn pilot cutter movement, when he made Eve of St Mawes on spec. and things really snowballed.
Probably The Grayhound lugger (now chiming in with the Tres Hombres sail cargo venture) would not have got built otherwise.
Of course he's not the only one but he's a main instigator of this wonderful movement in British sailing, which, to be honest, had some catching up to do with things like the Granvillaise and the Cancaillaise already happening in France.

He is a top speaker and if your club gets a chance to book him to give a talk, bite his fingers off.
He spoke to a grizzled group of hard-mouthed SW Old Gaffers last year at the Royal Cornish, and you could have heard a pin drop for 1.5 hours ;)
Respects to Luke
enjoy the sun LD
 
Humm, thank you 'fisherman' for posting the Video on here, very interesting commentary and gives an insight into the changing use /development of those Bristol Vessels along with their Pilots. The references to 'up winding' the opposition from 'other pilots' very interesting, perhaps the basis for Yacht Racing skills?
 
Just remembered, when I sailed away from St. Mawes on 21st May last year I was in company with several Scillonian Pilot Cutters. Beautiful sight and exciting to watch them power past me. They were joining up with a load of old boats at Fowey that night and then to "race" back to St. Mawes/Falmouth the next day.
It was a lively night in Fowey!!
 
Many thanks for this.

When I am wealthy (can that time be much longer coming?) I am going to have one of Luke Powell's boats. I think the Lizzie May is the prettiest. Perhaps I shall have to make the owner an offer s/he can't refuse. Not long now.......(I wish)
 
Good afternoon, yes they aren't cheap. Eve of St Mawes was up for sale a couple of yrs ago for £195K (plus VAT!), but they changed their minds and kept her, I believe.
If you've got that sort of money to spend, there are plenty of other historic rig boats out there which could offer better value than the over-hyped W Country pilot cutter types. Part of the big asking price is because they are on the blue book, MCA Coded small commercial sailing vessels.
 
Thanks for posting that -- most entertaining.

I was interested in seeing the confirmation (at about 1m 15s) of how slack the lee rigging on a gaffer can get. I've always advocated having shrouds just tight enough that the lee ones can be pulled sideays a bit by hand, but these ones are simply flopping around by themselves.

Most of today's yotties seem to want to tauten up rigging so much that the lee shrouds can be used as harp strings....

Mike
 
Good morning, there is nothing about gaff rig, as opposed to bermudan, which says that the standing rigging ought to be loose.
A gaff rig does not sail better with slack rigging. There is no aerodynamic reason to have lee shrouds flopping about, indeed, if it is so slack, it is not helping to keep the mast rigid, which means extra wear and chafe on almost everything up there, plus extra stress on the deck as well due to the movement.
Gaff rigging should be bar tight *if practicable* . Which it often isn't.

Let's face it, the reason it is left slack is that many boats made of wooden planks were designed with inadequate chain plates, not enough strengthening in way of the shrouds, and may be in poor condition.
Thus, having tight shrouds soon opens up some nice gaps in the planking, (or even the keel fastenings) which weakens the whole structure as the planks can't support each other.
Of course if you keep taking up slack on the lee shrouds, you can apply vast disproportionate loads, but that does NOT mean that gaffer rigging, in general, is better off slack.

I don't mind if my forthright views open up a can of worms, personally I think there is a lot of nonsense talked on this subject.
Enjoy the sunshine, LD
 
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Your post at 07:26 is timely enough for the "early bird" looking for the first worm, or even "can of" !.
I suspect that the discordant views will be along shortly!;)

Our old gaffer was pretty tightly fastened, and we had her re-rigged when we bought her, but the lee shrouds were never bar-tight (not by intention)

Good thread, all the same.
 
The main reason I think for gaffers having slacker rigging than bermudan boats is simply the difficulty in getting the same tension with dead eyes as you would with bottle screws. Not to mention the stretch you get from the lashings.

A well found wooden boat shouldn't have trouble with the top sides or garboards opening up though the rig being tensioned correctly and there are countless bermudan wooden boats out there to attest to that.
 
Humm, can I ask, what the shrouds were /are made of, on a Gaff Cutter, as I understood that the tightness depended upon the give /stretch when under strain?

Also the 'wetness' /'dryness' of the rope due to stretch?
 
Well Lyndsey, I'm not going to argue with your so-firmly-entrenched views. However, I note in passing that the weather shrouds and backstay(s) are taking tensile strain, that the mast in it partners and step is taking compressive and bending strain, that the mast is not being overly forced down through its step by shroud tension, and that the upper strakes are not being dragged upwards away from the hull by excessive shroud tension. Whether the vessel is gaff-rigged, bermudan-rigged, lug-rigged, sprit-rigged, lateen-rigged, or anything else is irrelevant.

Should you wish to rig your boat so that the mast is only able to take purely compressive loads, then by all means do so. But in that case, if a shroud or any other stay goes, then so does your mast. Most owners of traditional vessels prefer that sailing stresses are distributed more equally through various parts of the structure, and in particular that the mast acts along with the rigging, not in opposition to it, in sharing sailing loads.

I did indeed imply that the lee shrouds on this particular vessel seemed excessively slack, which would indicate a fair bit of bend in the mast, and that in turn might mean that she's not sailing quite as efficently as she might be.

There's no more reason for saying that many wooden boats were designed with inadequate chainplates than there is for saying that many plastic boats are designed that way -- indeed, possibly less. I have no idea where that concept originated from.


As to shroud material, it was originally natural fibre, preferably manila (hemp). For cruising boats generally, later came plough steel, galvanised, stainless, and now (in a few cases) spectra. But usually not on traditional vessels, because the owners of such boats generally prefer that they look as nearly original as possible (the raison d'être for Wooden Boat Fittings). So in many cases traditional hemp on gaffers has been replaced by synthetic hemp, of which a few brands are available.

Finally, the tension on shrouds rigged with deadeyes is not applied through the lanyards, although it is later taken through them. Rather, each shroud is set up using a temporary tackle between the shroud itself and the chainplate. Tension is applied and held through the tackle while the lanyards are rove, when the tackle is then removed. At that point some stretch in the lanyard occurs, slackening the shroud marginally, but this is compensated for in advance by the tension placed in the tackle during set-up.

Mike
 
Wooden Boat Fittings said:
Finally, the tension on shrouds rigged with deadeyes is not applied through the lanyards, although it is later taken through them. Rather, each shroud is set up using a temporary tackle between the shroud itself and the chainplate. Tension is applied and held through the tackle while the lanyards are rove, when the tackle is then removed. At that point some stretch in the lanyard occurs, slackening the shroud marginally, but this is compensated for in advance by the tension placed in the tackle during set-up.

Mike
Click to expand...
Quite. Chain hoists are popular amongst riggers these days to set the tension, some of that tension will always disappear when you ease it onto the lashings since they'll stretch and bed in and they'll stretch further as the load increases whilst sailing. It would take a very small amount of stretch to cause a noticeable sag in the leeward shrouds during a moderate slog to windward. I wasn't saying its impossible to get great loads on dead eyes, just nowhere near as easy as winding up a screw.
 
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