Working sail film

Woodlouse said:
Depends on your idea of early days. 100 years ago, certainly. 150 years ago, probably. 200 years ago probably not. For any vessel sailing today (USS Constitution excepted) wire was almost certainly available for the standing rigging.
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Humm, thank you for that perspective on the subject, but if we look at a probably the last working under craft under sail, Thames barges, I do not recall that I noticed that any rigging was wire, appeared to me to be all rope, with a small amount of chain. Even when watching film of a Thames barge lowering its rig, it appeared to be rope, but perhaps I am mistaken.
 
Capt Popeye said:
Humm, thank you for that perspective on the subject, but if we look at a probably the last working under craft under sail, Thames barges, I do not recall that I noticed that any rigging was wire, appeared to me to be all rope, with a small amount of chain. Even when watching film of a Thames barge lowering its rig, it appeared to be rope, but perhaps I am mistaken.
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You are indeed mistaken. Thames barges have used wire for their standing rigging for as long as it has been economically available.
 
Sniper said:
You are indeed mistaken. Thames barges have used wire for their standing rigging for as long as it has been economically available.
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Humm, thank yopu for that info; which means, if I understand it correctly, if the Lee rigging appears slack when under sail, then tis the give in the rigging , spars, that allows it?
 
Capt Popeye said:
Humm, thank you for that perspective on the subject, but if we look at a probably the last working under craft under sail, Thames barges, I do not recall that I noticed that any rigging was wire, appeared to me to be all rope, with a small amount of chain. Even when watching film of a Thames barge lowering its rig, it appeared to be rope, but perhaps I am mistaken.
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The rigging of a Thames barge would most likely have been wormed, parcelled and served which would give it a rope look.

Capt Popeye said:
Humm, thank yopu for that info; which means, if I understand it correctly, if the Lee rigging appears slack when under sail, then tis the give in the rigging , spars, that allows it?
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Wire will stretch. Even if it just stretches by an inch then that is enough to create considerable slack to leeward.
 
Woodlouse said:
The rigging of a Thames barge would most likely have been wormed, parcelled and served which would give it a rope look.


Wire will stretch. Even if it just stretches by an inch then that is enough to create considerable slack to leeward.
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Humm, thank you, you are indeed right, I mistook the worming and parcelling for a complete rope rigging, thank you.
 
The gaff rig has more wieght in its hight than a awb especially with top sail. Therefore when sailing, the weather rigging stretches & the lee rigging slackens. When not sailing all should be fairly tight. If one was to tighten the lee rigging when under sail..... One would strain ones hull.....Which could open seams .... causing water ingress..... leading to possible drowning...
Lyndsey Doyle said:
Good morning, there is nothing about gaff rig, as opposed to bermudan, which says that the standing rigging ought to be loose.
A gaff rig does not sail better with slack rigging. There is no aerodynamic reason to have lee shrouds flopping about, indeed, if it is so slack, it is not helping to keep the mast rigid, which means extra wear and chafe on almost everything up there, plus extra stress on the deck as well due to the movement.
Gaff rigging should be bar tight *if practicable* . Which it often isn't.

Let's face it, the reason it is left slack is that many boats made of wooden planks were designed with inadequate chain plates, not enough strengthening in way of the shrouds, and may be in poor condition.
Thus, having tight shrouds soon opens up some nice gaps in the planking, (or even the keel fastenings) which weakens the whole structure as the planks can't support each other.
Of course if you keep taking up slack on the lee shrouds, you can apply vast disproportionate loads, but that does NOT mean that gaffer rigging, in general, is better off slack.

I don't mind if my forthright views open up a can of worms, personally I think there is a lot of nonsense talked on this subject.
Enjoy the sunshine, LD
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Humm, sorry to persist, but after reading all the above comment on the 'slack' lee shrouds I now understand that any apparent 'slackness' was due to the actual working tolerances between the Mast, Shrouds, Stays, Hull give, wind strength, etc? This apparent 'slackness' would then change according to the 'point of sailing' and the differences in angle to the wind?
Err so not really a problem in them days, as most probably all the other vessels were experiencing the same 'slackness' at the same time?
 
R H Dana, in 'Two years Before the Mast' relates they loaded hides at San Francisco, as it would become, throwing them off the cliff. The cargo was rammed tight into the hold, and the ship took several days of hard sailing to 'ease her stays' and loosen up, presumably as the hull worked.
 
Capt Popeye said:
Humm, sorry to persist, but after reading all the above comment on the 'slack' lee shrouds I now understand that any apparent 'slackness' was due to the actual working tolerances between the Mast, Shrouds, Stays, Hull give, wind strength, etc? This apparent 'slackness' would then change according to the 'point of sailing' and the differences in angle to the wind?
Err so not really a problem in them days, as most probably all the other vessels were experiencing the same 'slackness' at the same time?
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Correct. When at rest everything would appear to be pretty tight, once sailing the collective give through out the system results in the slack. It's the same deal with boats today though a bit less noticeable due to the higher standing tensions, all the same I've seen some impressive slack in the lee shrouds of some sizeable rod rigging in the past.
 
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