Wooden Boats

The biggest single factor is, of course, labour.

I asked the Chief Instructor at the IBTC what we would be looking at to build an all teak Vertue. Just hull, deck and coachroof. Forget rig, sails, engine, electrics, deck fittings etc.

He said 'If you can get the wood - which you can't, and would have to use Iroko - about £150k'.
 
Be careful of a boat that has been out of the water for an extended period. Even after a winter ashore, a wooden boat will leak for a few days until it "takes up"; one that has been ashore for a longer period may either take weeks to "take up" or never do so without recaulking. My Dad's first yacht was a clinker built wooden lifeboat conversion; I remember some hectic times with a bag of sawdust trying to get leaks to stop after putting her back in the water!

And that's not including the time the bung came out! Being an ex-lifeboat, she had a bung to allow drainage when out of the water; one winter either it came loose of its own accord, or it wasn't replaced - I can't remember which. The old adage about a scared man with a bucket being the best way of shifting water was shown to be true on that occasion, and you've never seen iron ballast shifted so fast!
 
One of the boats on my 'longlist' that I'm looking at next week is wooden. As the price of the boats I will be looking at are at the bottom end of the range a surveyor is a high portion of my spend. It's all the more important that I don't call him out to a 'dud' What are the main points I should be looking at in particular when I have that first speculative look at a wooden boat?
Do I stop when I see any indication of a top sides leak? Is a dry bilge a good sign? ( I think the wooden boat I'm looking at is in the water) can you readily tell a good boat from an bad one?
I cannot afford a specialist surveyor on every 6k boat I look at but would shell out after I've seen enough to consider a purchase. It might be seen as heresy here but I may not bother if it was a grp boat, never have yet!

On another related note - if I buy a wooden boat that has been in the water for some time, what is likely to happen when it's craned in after a winter on the hard next year?
 
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SteveTibbetts said:
One of the boats on my 'longlist' that I'm looking at next week is wooden. As the price of the boats I will be looking at are at the bottom end of the range a surveyor is a high portion of my spend. It's all the more important that I don't call him out to a 'dud' What are the main points I should be looking at in particular when I have that first speculative look at a wooden boat?
Do I stop when I see any indication of a top sides leak? Is a dry bilge a good sign? ( I think the wooden boat I'm looking at is in the water) can you readily tell a good boat from an bad one?
I cannot afford a specialist surveyor on every 6k boat I look at but would shell out after I've seen enough to consider a purchase. It might be seen as heresy here but I may not bother if it was a grp boat, never have yet!

On another related note - if I buy a wooden boat that has been in the water for some time, what is likely to happen when it's craned in after a winter on the hard next year?
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First thing to establish is how long the owner has had it, what has he done to it in his ownership along with paperwork ,ask to see the last available survey. Topsides shouldn't leak, nor for that matter should the hull below water. Any blackening or discolouration in varnish should be checked out. Any flaws in paintwork should be tapped to check for a solid ring and any rust coming through paintwork should also be checked.. Proof of age and maintenance of engine should be available. All basic enough stuff . If you like the boat and before you get a surveyor, ask the owner to dry it out and check below the waterline for corrosion of prop, check rudder fittings, look at hull/keel joint for signs of corrosion/weeping. Look at pipework/attachments and check seacocks are working. Make sure electrics are tidy looking and everything works. Then if you like it , negotiate a price subject to survey. Don't be afraid of wood,if its been maintained it will outlast any other type of construction.
 
chinita said:
The biggest single factor is, of course, labour.

I asked the Chief Instructor at the IBTC what we would be looking at to build an all teak Vertue. Just hull, deck and coachroof. Forget rig, sails, engine, electrics, deck fittings etc.

He said 'If you can get the wood - which you can't, and would have to use Iroko - about £150k'.
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Good to see they've always been so positive. You can still get teak, it just costs a lot. For an all teak Vertue today you'd probably spend over £100k just on timber in this country. That doesn't mean it can't be done though. If I was going to have a boat built of teak today I'd do it in India. I know of a chap who about five years ago had a 50 foot teak pilot cutter hull built out there for about £150k.
 
paella said:
I have to say having done a bit of 'random' research you certainly seem to get allot of boat for your money...or should that be allot of headaches!
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The boatyards of the world are full of lots of boat for your money. They are normally covered in green mould, because a lot of boat for your money invariably requires a lot of money for your boat too.
 
paella said:
Simply an oversight - I will add it to the list...although as mentioned I would want reasonable accommodation and space to put a solid fuel fire...
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As always 'tis a compromise. With wooden boats the best sailors will inevitably have the worst accommodation. And I guess vice versa. I have good accommodation (nothing to rival a modern yacht) but she doesn't point high. But then she is the most comfortable thing to sail with a lovely motion and in the right conditions is fabulous. It's 20 years since I did what you are doing and I wanted 30ft plus. I dallied too long over a 36' yawl called Ondine of Donegal, mainly because of her draught which would have changed my habits around here but she was a one off, made of teak. Probably just as well because 6' of her was just a platform for the mizzen and her cockpit was really small. But even in her partial refit state her class showed. But she was a one off showing that it is worth considering individual builds. TG is an example of this. Built just after a Virtue she has the bow moulding of a Virtue and the topsides and knuckle but at 32 is much large and this pays back in the accommodation. In terms of quality of build it is immaterial that she is a one off.

Can I suggest you think about cockpits amongst the other things. These won't be as comfortable or as large as modern yachts so make sure it is suitable for the number of crew you will have.
 
tillergirl said:
...Can I suggest you think about cockpits amongst the other things. These won't be as comfortable or as large as modern yachts so make sure it is suitable for the number of crew you will have.
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I am most likely to be doing short handed sailing (if my wife joins me or not its basically single handed...if you get my gist!) which may again limit the possibilities but on the other hand cockpit room is not therefore a big issue. I like sailing in the winter and my main issue would be having a warm boat; I have a romantic vision of a solid fuel fire keeping me warm while anchored somewhere remote. Only being able to use a boat for 8 or 9 Months a year seems a waste which is why I am beginning this project.
 
Eyore said:
First thing to establish is how long the owner has had it, what has he done to it in his ownership along with paperwork ,ask to see the last available survey. Topsides shouldn't leak, nor for that matter should the hull below water. Any blackening or discolouration in varnish should be checked out. Any flaws in paintwork should be tapped to check for a solid ring and any rust coming through paintwork should also be checked.. Proof of age and maintenance of engine should be available. All basic enough stuff . If you like the boat and before you get a surveyor, ask the owner to dry it out and check below the waterline for corrosion of prop, check rudder fittings, look at hull/keel joint for signs of corrosion/weeping. Look at pipework/attachments and check seacocks are working. Make sure electrics are tidy looking and everything works. Then if you like it , negotiate a price subject to survey. Don't be afraid of wood,if its been maintained it will outlast any other type of construction.
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All good stuff.

Plus, educate yourself. Read up on wood as much as you can. Become a disciple to Knees (not the ones you kneel on), Hogs (not the ones you roast), Frames (not the ones you put pictures in and certainly not ribs!!), Floors (not the ones you walk on), Deadwood (not the stuff you burn) and so on.

It is great fun, enjoy it. A world apart from GRP.
 
tillergirl said:
Can I suggest you think about cockpits amongst the other things. These won't be as comfortable or as large as modern yachts so make sure it is suitable for the number of crew you will have.
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Size does not necessarily imply comfort. A small, deep cockpit can be a far more sheltered and cosy place than a wind-swept patio designed for barbecues and gracious living.
 
OK ........... seriously though ... I know she's in a different price bracket to what you're looking for but she is lovely! Recently spent £16k on her (with invoices) and had her surveyed and valued at £40k ... hasn't sold so now on the market for £35k ... shame but my creeping arthritis now dictates a motor boat is next ... wash my mouth out with Bilgex!!!
 
Talking of people close to Portsmouth, Chrissie of these forums is a good surveyor and knows wooden boats. She helped supervise my refit and did my survey and I am very happy with it.

I can also introduce you to a number of local suppliers who can help with wooden boats.

He is not a surveyor, but if you want an expert eye cast over a boat, ask Dave Hancock, BDA. He is a shipwright and one of the generation who built wooden boats. He can help you to work out how much it would cost to put things right. That said, if he had told me BEFORE I started I would never have started!

Another idea, have you looked at South Coast One Designs (SCOD). There are a fair few around the Solent and Chichester and they get together for races and socials etc.

What I did not expect when I bought mine is that your choice of boat can also open up a racing or social relationship with other owners of the same or similar class.

The ones around the Solent that seem quite active are:

Old Gaffers
Folkboats
SCOD
Hillyards

And through Cowes Classics Week (the one run by Royal London / not the BCYC event) there is a growing number of 50 + year old boats that get together for friendly racing and socials.
 
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