Wondering the practicality og a round UK trip next year

[steve yates]

Everyone makes choices and every journey can be described as challenge. Not having used either canal I cannot personally comment. but both canals should be on a list to experience in their own right. There were places I planned to visit last year, but due to weather conditions and time constraits, I had to leave some of them out, which hopefully I will visit in the next few years.

Every journey really revolves around the confidence of the skipper in their boat. I enjoy long day sails followed by a day or two visting places ashore. I have no requirement to keep a crew satisfied with food, drink and entertainment, but many cruisers do and this adjusts their choices of places to visit. Sailing around the top of the UK is a much bigger undertaking than most are prepared to commit to (750 extra miles roughly), but I certainly do not decry anyone who uses the Caledonian Canal.

Thats not the point, I dont decry anyone using canals, they are bloody useful. And I dont decry anyones trip from south of england round via the caledonian canal & back either, its a great cruise.
And I'm not even bothered about the exactitudes of what is and is not round britain, as basically round the uk mainland pretty much covers it.
My sole point is that having a great cruise round 2/3rds of the uk is nowhere near a circumnavigation. Its not even close, and for anyone to claim they have gone round britain by this route is to show a complete disdain for the country of scotland.
Its simple, going through something is not going round something

 

[Whaup367]

Bearing in mind that the Caledonian Canal is entirely (and substantially) within Scotland, I reckon that's stretching it a bit!

See Steve Yates' subsequent post above... To be fair, "Round England & Wales" would be better, since those are the countries that have been "rounded", along with a bit of Scotland (small bit for F+C, big bit for Cally). Arguably, "stretching it" is claiming "round Britain" while skipping about a third of the UK coastline!

 

[dunedin]

Having done the full round Britain singlehanded, I can honestly say that anyone who uses the Caledonian Canal still has completed an epic voyage compared to most sailors. If they want to call it round Britain, it does not bother me as I just say you took the short cut.

Yes it is a perfectly decent trip. But a southerner calling it "round Britain" is seriously patronising to those who live on the British mainland NW of the Canal line. Its a bit like those who talk about "the provinces" as anything north of Watford Gap.
NB I live in the southern bit, but respect our fellow citizens further NW

 

[dunedin]

Going back to the original topic, it is very clear that there us a huge difference between the NATURE of most of the voyage via a Canal route vs the part of a voyage in the N and W.

The rest of the journey is linear - next destination is only one direction, only choice distance between stops (and then may be very limited choices if solo with insurance limits). Hence risk either of protracted delays waiting for fair winds or extensive motoring and or pastings going upwind. Hence the "delivery trip" mode.
The joy in the NW is the flexibility to go with the weather. For example from Tobermory I was planning to head West to Barra. But the forecast changed and risked 50 miles upwind- forecast Slight but still suggested 1.5m wave every 6 seconds for 10-12 hours (so into 7,000 to 10,000 waves!). Instead headed South towards Coll and Iona, a lovely reach. Then take the forecast Easterlies out to Barra. Go with the weather not fight against it

 

[Kelpie]

I must be in the minority here but canals hold no particular appeal to me.
Ok I've only done the Crinan, and yes it was quite pretty and it was a novelty, but it was also really tedious plodding along at walking speed, unable to leave the helm for even a second.
SWMBO grew up in a village overlooking the Caley canal and her parents still live there, so it's an area I know very well. I've watched thousands of yachts motoring up and down it. Again, it's pretty, but I'd much prefer open sea and a chance to get the engine off.

I've lived all of my adult life north of the Great Glen, so maybe I'm biased, but the best cruising I've had in UK waters has all been NW of the Caley canal. It would be a bit nuts to miss that out.
Maybe when I get back home I'll do a 'round Britain' through the canal, but doing the top half. Seeing as shortcuts are allowed

 

[Kelpie]

I have anchored 5 times in 20 years.

I would suggest that this gives you a very unusual perspective on cruising and that your advice and preferences might only suit a tiny minority.

 

[Tranona]

I would suggest that this gives you a very unusual perspective on cruising and that your advice and preferences might only suit a tiny minority.

You would be surprised how many people hop from marina to marina. As you say you have lived and cruised all your life in an area where anchoring is a necessity. where i live it is a minority activity particularly for larger modern boats.

Making no apologies for Daydream Believer, but from where he is based to cruise in the way he does (East Coast across to Netherlands then down to Western France, on his own, use of marinas and harbours is essential as there are few places where you can anchor until you get west of the Channel Islands, particularly on the European side. Likewise his "Round Britain" is one big linear marina hop now.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Yes it is a perfectly decent trip. But a southerner calling it "round Britain" is seriously patronising to those who live on the British mainland NW of the Canal line. Its a bit like those who talk about "the provinces" as anything north of Watford Gap.
NB I live in the southern bit, but respect our fellow citizens further NW

I'm pretty sure that this trip is regularly undertaken by those that don't identify as Southerners.

 

[dunedin]

I'm pretty sure that this trip is regularly undertaken by those that don't identify as Southerners.

No but it is generally the people from further south who think it is ok to dismiss half the country in their definition of "Britain", and perhaps don't see the offence caused by their inconsiderate use of language.

 

[Daydream believer]

No but it is generally the people from further south who think it is ok to dismiss half the country in their definition of "Britain", and perhaps don't see the offence caused by their inconsiderate use of language.

The biggest insult that I delivered in that respect- It was totally unintentional. Was in 2014 when in Peterborough, I was looking for a supermarket . I had aproached no less than THREE groups, who did not understand me, as they all appeared to be of Polish decent. No problem with that, except I was getting frustrated walking round searching. It is quite a distance from the marina & getting late.
Finally I met a bearded guy & asked the question. He replied in a Scottish accent & I- in a gasp of relief said, "At last, someone English".
Where upon he nearly lynched me, as he declared, with some annoyance, that he was definitely NOT English, but a true Scot.
I had to back track very quickly & apologise profusely, explaining what had happened. Once he calmed down he gave me directions & we parted with him muttering something about Sassenachs & the sooner the referendum came the better.

 

[Kelpie]

You would be surprised how many people hop from marina to marina. As you say you have lived and cruised all your life in an area where anchoring is a necessity. where i live it is a minority activity particularly for larger modern boats.

Making no apologies for Daydream Believer, but from where he is based to cruise in the way he does (East Coast across to Netherlands then down to Western France, on his own, use of marinas and harbours is essential as there are few places where you can anchor until you get west of the Channel Islands, particularly on the European side. Likewise his "Round Britain" is one big linear marina hop now.

Yes the marina-to-marina way of sailing is a bit alien to me. You waste so much time getting lines and fenders out, manoeuvring in and out of a berth, walking to the facilities instead of using your own heads, etc. And marinas are full of expensive boats which I don't want to hit.

I have done it, whilst helping a friend deliver a boat from Troon to Mallaig. We stayed on a pontoon every single night.

As of time of writing, I've spent every night since 2nd January either at anchor or, occasionally, on a mooring. So I'm probably at the other end of the scale from DD.

 

[NormanS]

You would be surprised how many people hop from marina to marina. As you say you have lived and cruised all your life in an area where anchoring is a necessity. where i live it is a minority activity particularly for larger modern boats.

Making no apologies for Daydream Believer, but from where he is based to cruise in the way he does (East Coast across to Netherlands then down to Western France, on his own, use of marinas and harbours is essential as there are few places where you can anchor until you get west of the Channel Islands, particularly on the European side. Likewise his "Round Britain" is one big linear marina hop now.

I have never thought of anchoring as being a "necessity". A joy, a privilege maybe, but not something forced on me. I'm old now, but when I started sailing, anchoring was normal practice, and for me it still is. That was in the days before moorings or pontoons for visiting yachts, were ever thought of. We probably exercised better seamanship in choosing our anchorages, by taking expected weather conditions into account, rather than automatically heading for commercial yachting facilities, not all of which are well sheltered.

 

[Daydream believer]

I actually enjoy going into new marinas. I can step ashore at will. Talk to people & stroll around without the hassle of inflating & deflating dingies. I know that the boat is safely moored.
I have a shower on board & a blackwater tank so trips to shore side facilities need not be a chore.
If there is a bar- which there usually is- then a pint is good after a sail.
As for hitting other boats- just learn how to handle yours. I know lots of people who dennounce marinas simple because they cannot handle their own boat. To me that is just poor boat handling.
Getting lines & fenders out is a faff, but little more than preparing the anchor flakes, going through the motions, including avoiding others in crowded anchorages & cleaning the decks afterwards.

But to each his own & as mentioned earlier, the skills one develops, are usually dictated by the area one sails in.

 

[Bristolfashion]

No but it is generally the people from further south who think it is ok to dismiss half the country in their definition of "Britain", and perhaps don't see the offence caused by their inconsiderate use of language.

"People from further south" (presumably south of the Caledonian canal) and southerners are not exactly the same thing. Whilst tilting at the casual use of incorrect terminology is very worthy, IMHO you may be making a teeny bit too much of this issue.

Thank goodness we went "up & over" on our trip!

BTW, I personally object (but not much) to being casually lumped in as a southerner - Bristol is in the south west, an entirely different thing to the south east! Mind you, those people from Bath are a bit strange ........!

 

[Bristolfashion]

I reckon marinas are great- we're just back in one after 6 nights at anchor / mooring - but we're a little 29', no shower job, what I don't understand is that these huge, luxury jobs seem to go into marinas all the time despite having the jacuzzi, steam room & sauna on board - and a rib worth more than my boat!

 

[dunedin]

I have never thought of anchoring as being a "necessity". A joy, a privilege maybe,

I agree. The more that pontoon hop the better, to leave the anchorages free ;-)

But marina hopping does put huge constraints on the route in many locations.

Certainly wouldn't have managed my favourite ever three day passage - anchoring consecutively at The Shiant Isles, Taransay then Hirta (St Kilda)

 

[Tranona]

I have never thought of anchoring as being a "necessity". A joy, a privilege maybe, but not something forced on me. I'm old now, but when I started sailing, anchoring was normal practice, and for me it still is. That was in the days before moorings or pontoons for visiting yachts, were ever thought of. We probably exercised better seamanship in choosing our anchorages, by taking expected weather conditions into account, rather than automatically heading for commercial yachting facilities, not all of which are well sheltered.

You rather missed the point. There are few places you can actually anchor along the N European coast from the Netherlands down to the Channel Islands and even from there westwards the sort of places you might want to visit are only practical if you use the many harbours rather than anchoring. To an extent this is true of the S coast of the UK where although there are more places to anchor overnight they are often limited in size and short of water. Where there is space and water like the SW rivers they are full of moorings with very limited places for free anchoring.

So while many people like me prefer to anchor the reality is that cruising requires the use of harbours and marinas - hence the regular questions on here and articles in the yotty press on equipping your boat and learning skills for mooring in (often tidal) marinas. Also why, for many people anchor threads are one big yawn.

 

[Greg2]

Just slogged through the entire thread which was worth it to distill the really interesting and helpful stuff.

I have been toying with the idea of a ‘circumnavigation’ in our mobo. We sail as well and have often considered a yacht but because we also like going inland we have stuck with a mobo. My idea is to take as much time as it takes (so in retirement) and to take inland excursions as we go eg. up the Thames as far as we can get and likely into the Shannon in Ireland etc).

We have no interest in ‘ticking any boxes’ and it would be quite different to what has been discussed here although we would still do the same coastal cruising but with the benefit a a little more speed - not planing as we tend to ’plod’ along between 6 - 9 knots to keep fuel consumption reasonable and often to enjoy the passage. Day passages would be the order of the day so we would need to check that we can make harbours / anchorages each night and fuel availability would be an important factor but others have done it so presumably not a problem that can’t be overcome.

It is unlikely that we would go round the top and we would actually like to do the Caledonian canal. We are east coast based (south of Lowestoft) and might even consider getting to the end of the Caledonian canal and turning round to go back the way we came - perhaps taking the detour to Ireland on one leg and doing the English coast on the other. Staying at a location we like for a season would also be an option so cruising the west coast of Scotland would be a real consideration.

Just outline thoughts at the moment and complicated by the fact that we are still considering a yacht!
.

 

[NormanS]

You rather missed the point. There are few places you can actually anchor along the N European coast from the Netherlands down to the Channel Islands and even from there westwards the sort of places you might want to visit are only practical if you use the many harbours rather than anchoring. To an extent this is true of the S coast of the UK where although there are more places to anchor overnight they are often limited in size and short of water. Where there is space and water like the SW rivers they are full of moorings with very limited places for free anchoring.

So while many people like me prefer to anchor the reality is that cruising requires the use of harbours and marinas - hence the regular questions on here and articles in the yotty press on equipping your boat and learning skills for mooring in (often tidal) marinas. Also why, for many people anchor threads are one big yawn.

There seem to be an awful lot of different definitions of sailing round Britain/British Isles/UK, but bringing in the N European coast from the Netherlands down to the Channel Islands and westwards, is surely stretching it a bit. Our cruising is different. We tend to go to places where you can't go in the bus.

 

[Tranona]

There seem to be an awful lot of different definitions of sailing round Britain/British Isles/UK, but bringing in the N European coast from the Netherlands down to the Channel Islands and westwards, is surely stretching it a bit. Our cruising is different. We tend to go to places where you can't go in the bus.

Typical thread drift. The non anchoring sideline started with Daydream Believer explanation as to why he does not anchor.

Of course your cruising is different - but if you were starting a "round Britain" however you define it from where you are you would have to accept that for a large part of your journey you will find it difficult to avoid using harbours and marinas rather than anchoring. Round Britain does not just mean going round the top of Scotland to make it real.