With a midship spring line - how do I control the boat with the engine so that it glues parallel to the pontoon?

"Laika"

My boat has a serious propwalk having a large prop on 43HP in a 25ft bilge keeler. So much so in fact that I rely on the cleat being just fwd of midships.

If I berth stbd side to - idle ahead puts me very nicely alongside with just enough rudder to counter the bow wanting to veer in. I can literally leave her to fend herself while sorting lines.
The trick then is to try not use astern engine because that prop will drag that stern out smartish !! The midships cleat replaces the stopping action of astern engine. The line being just that little bit ahead of midships / pivot point keeps the bow from wanting to pay off away from berth.

If I berth port side to - even though that prop wants to drag my stern out when engine ahead - I just increase the amount of rudder and she again sits nicely to let me do my lines. Same again.

I appreciate your post - but IMHO you are making 2+2=5 for my posts and situation. I fully understood RW's post and his misreading of my 'that makes two of us' ...

I've sailed / motored many different boats from dinghys, barges to absolute pigs - big and small - fin .. long ... bilge ... triple .. props offset from centreline ... behind rudders ... and near all have come down to balancing rudder / engine / line.

I have also said many times in many threads - that one solution for one guy is not necessarily solution for another. But the point is that all opinions / suggestions / experiences etc. go into the 'pot' then readers can choose / try / reject what they consider appropriate.

I do not say MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY ... I say ... maybe My Way can work for you ... big difference.

I always find it interesting the hard and unbending 'ideals' of some yotties (I am not aiming at you Laika) .... my Father was the best Navigator I ever knew (my seagoing profession was Navigating / Deck Officer for 17 years) ... and he was invited to give a talk at the Yacht Club. He vowed never to do it again.
I remembered that years later when in the Spinnaker Pub opposite Moody's at Hamble. I got chatting with a couple of guys about taking a boat across the channel. They were discussing tidal streams / currents and how to compensate. They overheard me talking to my brother and we got chatting. On that question - I turned over a beer mat ... drew a vector ... and the typical S you encounter crossing channel (the S is stream one way then opposite for other half the trip ! for average sailboat) .... to be told I did not know what I was talking about and it could not be that simple.
 
Does it really matter that much if some boats tend to lie bow-in or -out once the amidships line/spring is attached? Surely the primary idea is to simply initially stop the boat by attaching it by the 'hip' to a pontoon cleat, immediately after which pre-prepared bow and stern lines can be employed to bring it parallel with the pontoon.

One way which works for me (single-handing, although admittedly just a 27 footer) which always guarantees a secure temporary hip-pontoon joint, is to rig the spring as (1) a bowline to be dropped over the cleat from my position in the cockpit, while (2) the rest of the line is not made off on the midships cleat but run under its neck back to a winch in the cockpit - so that as the slack is quickly taken in the midships cleat aligns with pontoon cleat and, with the beam fenders tightly in place, the bow can't then actually go anywhere much at all. Then, in a trice, the usual bow and stern lines are secured and the spring re-rigged for a proper stay.
 
All these people going on about cleats...I dream of cleats! My berth has bloody staples - now that really is an abomination for a single-hander!
Dunno how lucky you are...!
 
Babylon said:
Does it really matter that much if some boats tend to lie bow-in or -out once the amidships line/spring is attached? Surely the primary idea is to simply initially stop the boat by attaching it by the 'hip' to a pontoon cleat, immediately after which pre-prepared bow and stern lines can be employed to bring it parallel with the pontoon.

One way which works for me (single-handing, although admittedly just a 27 footer) which always guarantees a secure temporary hip-pontoon joint, is to rig the spring as (1) a bowline to be dropped over the cleat from my position in the cockpit, while (2) the rest of the line is not made off on the midships cleat but run under its neck back to a winch in the cockpit - so that as the slack is quickly taken in the midships cleat aligns with pontoon cleat and, with the beam fenders tightly in place, the bow can't then actually go anywhere much at all. Then, in a trice, the usual bow and stern lines are secured and the spring re-rigged for a proper stay.
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Reminds me of the first time many years ago I arrived in Cherbourg marina in my own boat at 01:00; very tired after a prolonged crossing.

I set up the midship line exactly as you do, and as I always did in the UK, with a bowline eye on the outboard end and the free end led back to a sheet winch, ready to be tensioned.

I came neatly alongside the catway and madam stepped nimbly ashore holding the spring ready to drop over a cleat. A moment later there was a wail as madam discovered there was no cleat, just a steel loop at the end of the catway. By the time I had given her more slack so she could a turn round the loop there came the gentle crunching sound as the bow found the walkway. :(
 
What I would do is just approach the catwalk slowly, fix the spring to the midship cleat, lasso a cleat from my cockpit and pull in the slack, thatll stop the boat and keep it reasonably close (doesnt swing around) to the catwalk so I can then jump off and fix the bow- and aftlines.

I think I dont need to use the engine as soon as I caught a cleat.

The beauty of it seems to be that I dont need to steer into the catwalk but can just go alongside of it.
For heavier boats I think you could do the same with the help of a winch.

But if I got that right; I could put the engine in forward idle and put the tiller towards the pontoon to get alongside with the help of the engine, yes?

As soon as Im down at the boat again Ill give it a go and just try, I have a nice trip planned anyways. But I was a bit under the weather unfortunately :/

Interesting is the discussion that started here on a topic I deemed straight forward to answer.
 
Poignard said:
Reminds me of the first time many years ago I arrived in Cherbourg marina in my own boat at 01:00; very tired after a prolonged crossing.

I set up the midship line exactly as you do, and as I always did in the UK, with a bowline eye on the outboard end and the free end led back to a sheet winch, ready to be tensioned.

I came neatly alongside the catway and madam stepped nimbly ashore holding the spring ready to drop over a cleat. A moment later there was a wail as madam discovered there was no cleat, just a steel loop at the end of the catway. By the time I had given her more slack so she could a turn round the loop there came the gentle crunching sound as the bow found the walkway. :(
Click to expand...

Oh Dear !! That's the error of assuming what is needed and finding different. It has led to my having a couple of lines with large sprung snap hooks on the shore end. Large enough they snap over most cleats / rings etc. People who see my cordage array often ask why so many lines in the locker ... this is why ... I try to cater for all eventualities. I even have the self-reeving mooring hook on pole - so if needed I can thread a line back ...
 
DangerousPirate said:
What I would do is just approach the catwalk slowly, fix the spring to the midship cleat, lasso a cleat from my cockpit and pull in the slack, thatll stop the boat and keep it reasonably close (doesnt swing around) to the catwalk so I can then jump off and fix the bow- and aftlines.

I think I dont need to use the engine as soon as I caught a cleat.

The beauty of it seems to be that I dont need to steer into the catwalk but can just go alongside of it.
For heavier boats I think you could do the same with the help of a winch.

But if I got that right; I could put the engine in forward idle and put the tiller towards the pontoon to get alongside with the help of the engine, yes?

As soon as Im down at the boat again Ill give it a go and just try, I have a nice trip planned anyways. But I was a bit under the weather unfortunately :/

Interesting is the discussion that started here on a topic I deemed straight forward to answer.
Click to expand...
I have 36ft and 60hp engine and a long keel plus experience based on lighter and easy to manouver boats.

I am finding the midship cleat works really well and have made a pole and lassoo worthy of a rodeo. But if I try to motor against it things often go pear shaped. Partly because engaging forwards at tickover still unleashes a lot of oomph and partly because unless the secured spring is tight there is too much speed build up. I actually wonder if my 14mm line will take it! I am trying a second lassoo to secure a line forward led round a stanchion base to get the bow in and sticking with a do everything slowly and gently approach.

I can see the motoring thing being useful if the wind or current are unfavourable and will have some more goes at it.
 
Supertramp said:
I have 36ft and 60hp engine and a long keel plus experience based on lighter and easy to manouver boats.

I am finding the midship cleat works really well and have made a pole and lassoo worthy of a rodeo. But if I try to motor against it things often go pear shaped. Partly because engaging forwards at tickover still unleashes a lot of oomph and partly because unless the secured spring is tight there is too much speed build up. I actually wonder if my 14mm line will take it! I am trying a second lassoo to secure a line forward led round a stanchion base to get the bow in and sticking with a do everything slowly and gently approach.

I can see the motoring thing being useful if the wind or current are unfavourable and will have some more goes at it.
Click to expand...
I find you need to take the strain up gently on the spring you’ve dropped on the cleat as otherwise the momentum of the boat pulling up short is in danger of pulling the cleat either out of the dock or the deck of your boat and you slew the stern out semi violently. It then takes a while for the wash from the prop to act on the rudder to bring the stern back in again. Take the strain up gently and then apply opposite lock and enough power to keep her steady.
It all about balancing forces.
 
john_morris_uk said:
I find you need to take the strain up gently on the spring you’ve dropped on the cleat as otherwise the momentum of the boat pulling up short is in danger of pulling the cleat either out of the dock or the deck of your boat and you slew the stern out semi violently. It then takes a while for the wash from the prop to act on the rudder to bring the stern back in again. Take the strain up gently and then apply opposite lock and enough power to keep her steady.
It all about balancing forces.
Click to expand...

Exactly .... BALANCED forces .....

As they say - Gently Gently Catchy Monkey ...

I have 43HP in 25ft ... I can sit all day at idle in gear with just that mid point spring ... despite being grossly overpowered.
 
john_morris_uk said:
I find you need to take the strain up gently on the spring you’ve dropped on the cleat as otherwise the momentum of the boat pulling up short is in danger of pulling the cleat either out of the dock or the deck of your boat and you slew the stern out semi violently. It then takes a while for the wash from the prop to act on the rudder to bring the stern back in again. Take the strain up gently and then apply opposite lock and enough power to keep her steady.
It all about balancing forces.
Click to expand...
That makes sense and I can see that getting the wheel/tiller position right is important too. I have just added a cleat by the wheel to let me quickly tie the wheel in any position so it doesn't wander. Amazed to have to add it to a 30 Yr old boat as the ability to tie off the wheel or tiller quickly has lots of uses, at least when single-handed.
 
Supertramp said:
That makes sense and I can see that getting the wheel/tiller position right is important too. I have just added a cleat by the wheel to let me quickly tie the wheel in any position so it doesn't wander. Amazed to have to add it to a 30 Yr old boat as the ability to tie off the wheel or tiller quickly has lots of uses, at least when single-handed.
Click to expand...

Absolutely .....

My solution is to use the tiller pilot. I have the old AH800 and AH1000 tillerpilots ... no reason to replace what still works. All I do is put to manual and press button for number of degrees I want tiller held
 
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