Wire for guard rails

[Hoolie]

I'm planning on replacing our 4mm pvc (partly) covered rails with 5mm open stainless wire.
The question is, should I use 1 x 19 or 7 x 19 wire? Both seem to be generally available and I realise that 7 x 19 will be more flexible. Is there any reason to prefer 1 x 19?

 

[Porthandbuoy]

7x19, while more flexible, is much more efficient at pulling the hairs out of your legs than 1x19.
Also, the smaller diameter strands break easier and can draw blood and/or tear sails (esp. spinnakers & cruising shutes).
I'd go for 1x19, though I think some people now use parafil.

 

[Quandary]

1x19 wire is normally used for guardrails and will (probably) be more durable in that application. 7x 19 wire is much more flexible with very fine strands, it main use is in running rigging such as composite halyards. I imagine that the thicker strands should be much more resistant to abrasion where they rub on stanchions. It is not unusual to find broken strands in 7x 19 wire halyards after not too much use, usually found when the barbs tear your skin.
It is a while since I purchased any wire but cost is another factor.

Wot. the boy said already, surely it did not take me 7 minutes to write a few lines, I am getting too slow !

 

[Hoolie]

Thanks for the replies - I can see the possible problem with chafing on 7 x 19 wire.
In any case I think I'll put some sleeving on the wires where they pass through the stanchions.

 

[Seajet]

Top Tip

Yes, go for 1 x 19, and while you're at it size it to fit decent stainless Pelican hooks for man overboard recovery - and everyday dinghy access.

A bit pricey at roughly £10.00ish a hook, but worth every penny, one of the best things I ever fitted.

These Pelican hooks are available in 2 formats, either to have swaged on by a rigger, or to shackle on; either way the length of the wire will need to allow.

Rope lashings are a cheapskates's joke of an alternative, if one has to cut them to recover a person over the side one is left with no guardrails in what may well already be hairy conditions, and / or in the dark.

Lashings used to be required as solid metal all round produced a 'quadrantal error' for RDF navigation, but as that system is thankfully long gone there's no excuse !

Things like bottlescrews to adjust the wire length are not necessary if one has a decent spare shackles box and a bit of time.

 

[Sniper]

Yes, go for 1 x 19, and while you're at it size it to fit decent stainless Pelican hooks for man overboard recovery - and everyday dinghy access.

A bit pricey at roughly £10.00ish a hook, but worth every penny, one of the best things I ever fitted.

These Pelican hooks are available in 2 formats, either to have swaged on by a rigger, or to shackle on; either way the length of the wire will need to allow.

Rope lashings are a cheapskates's joke of an alternative, if one has to cut them to recover a person over the side one is left with no guardrails in what may well already be hairy conditions, and / or in the dark.

Lashings used to be required as solid metal all round produced a 'quadrantal error' for RDF navigation, but as that system is thankfully long gone there's no excuse !

Things like bottlescrews to adjust the wire length are not necessary if one has a decent spare shackles box and a bit of time.

I don't agree. lashings make it much easier to adjust guardrails to the proper tension required for safety. With shackles you're left with a rather 'hit or miss' approach to getting the right tension. There's usually a bit of adjustment required on a regular basis, depending on your boat.

 

[Seajet]

I don't agree. lashings make it much easier to adjust guardrails to the proper tension required for safety. With shackles you're left with a rather 'hit or miss' approach to getting the right tension. There's usually a bit of adjustment required on a regular basis, depending on your boat.

If you take the time & trouble to try, with a suitable supply of various clevis pin shackles - the unused examples which will always be useful from the spares box - you'll find differently.

Lashings as mentioned are a one-time option for MOB, leaving the boat badly disabled in probably poor conditions if cut; and are subject to U/V, general weather, and even vandalism !

No contest for anyone willing to pay approx. £40.00 for major crew safety and general convenience equipment.

 

[Hoolie]

Yes, go for 1 x 19, and while you're at it size it to fit decent stainless Pelican hooks for man overboard recovery - and everyday dinghy access.

A bit pricey at roughly £10.00ish a hook, but worth every penny, one of the best things I ever fitted.

These Pelican hooks are available in 2 formats, either to have swaged on by a rigger, or to shackle on; either way the length of the wire will need to allow. ... ... ...

I had thought about Pelican hooks because even though we have a gate each side, they're only suitable for a standing MOB.
And as you say, to be able to drop the fore section will make it much easier to deploy our dinghy off the fore-deck.
For the reasons you give, I do not intend to use lashings; they're not at all the best solution.

 

[snooks]

Lashings to the pulpit to protect the genoa from wear on shackles pins and spilt pins etc

Pelican hooks at the pushpit taped over (the catch) to stop an accidental un-clip when you're leaning on them

Nowt skinflint about it, common sense

Job done....Oh and 1x19 unless you shave you legs

 

[Seajet]

All too rare 'common' sense...

Lashings to the pulpit to protect the genoa from wear on shackles pins and spilt pins etc

Pelican hooks at the pushpit taped over (the catch) to stop an accidental un-clip when you're leaning on them

Nowt skinflint about it, common sense

Job done....Oh and 1x19 unless you shave you legs

I must take a photo of my ( Gibb, I believe no longer available ) Pelican hooks then, as even cautious, pessimistic I doubt there's any chance of accidentally undoing them !

If shackles at the pulpit end are properly arranged & taped, ie clevis rings - not nasty sharp people & sail shredding split pins - downwards, ( which also means the pins proper can't fall out via gravity, which is as it should be ) there's nothing to catch on...

 

[snooks]

I must take a photo of my ( Gibb, I believe no longer available ) Pelican hooks then, as even cautious, pessimistic I doubt there's any chance of accidentally undoing them !

I've got a bit of string on the pull bit, so even with cold hands it's possible release them, or catch them on a jacket. Not that I have either, but it's always a thought when I'm leaning on them

 

[Seajet]

Ah, that's the piston type jobs, similar to things I associate with spinnaker sheets...

The Gibb hooks have an over-centre action via a long overlapping lever to aid tension, which is then secured by a sliding collar job, itself fairly secure; I'm sure you're familiar with them or would recognise it on seeing.

Why is it that some good kit disappears ?!

On the same line, if anyone can provide a decent meaningful home for the Anderson 22 production moulds, available free, speak now or that's it, gone forever !

 

[snooks]

The Gibb hooks have an over-centre action via a long overlapping lever to aid tension, which is then secured by a sliding collar job, itself fairly secure; I'm sure you're familiar with them or would recognise it on seeing.

Ah two types of pelican hooks

I know the ones, we have a couple of these holding down our liferaft,

I have these on our guardrails

Both pics from here

 

[prv]

Lashings as mentioned are a one-time option for MOB, leaving the boat badly disabled in probably poor conditions if cut

I can see that pelican hooks are a slicker solution, but I think you're exaggerating the downsides of lashings. It's not hard to get another bit of line and lash things back together again.

Pete

 

[Seajet]

Snooks,

very much the right lines but the jobs I have are sleeker.

Pete,

try restoring lashings in the middle of the night in the dark in a gale, after at least some of the crew is out of action and the rest tired after a MOB.

With these hooks it's a simple clip on then one has full guardrails restored...

 

[LadyInBed]

Rope lashings are a cheapskates's joke of an alternative, if one has to cut them to recover a person over the side one is left with no guardrails in what may well already be hairy conditions, and / or in the dark.

My bottom rail has a lashing and I don't think it is a 'cheapskates's joke'. It is easy to cut if required for MOB and can be quickly relashed if necessary.

Things like bottlescrews to adjust the wire length are not necessary if one has a decent spare shackles box and a bit of time.

My top rail has a bottle screw, shackles could be used but would be much more difficult to tension.
I agree that Pelican hooks are a good alternative.

 

[NormanS]

If you use the piston type pelican, as shown in Snooks photo, you don't need rigging screws to adjust the length. The wire terminal screws into the pelican, and once set to length, is locked with a locknut.

 

[Seajet]

Alternative to what ?!

Either guardrails can be quickly detached - and re-attached - simple as that, ask any life saving outfit.

I am amazed this is even open for discussion in 2011, shows what tight wallets and lack of experience / imagianation some people have.

 

[salinia]

I use lashings to the pelican hooks on the guardrails to get the tension nice and tight.

 

[Tranona]

Pete,

try restoring lashings in the middle of the night in the dark in a gale, after at least some of the crew is out of action and the rest tired after a MOB.

Perhaps you can share with us exactly how many times you have done this - with or without lashings!

If none, then you are only guessing!