Winter battery storage

[ghostlymoron]

What's the best thing to do with batteries over winter? I've been told to remove them from the boat, fully discharge using a 12v light bulb and then fully re-charge. Repeat this procedure once during the winter.
Is this a good plan?

 

[Trundlebug]

Forget discharging completely, because if you discharge a lead acid wet cell battery more than about 50% you will seriously reduce its working life.

Best thing to do is invest in a decent 3 or 4 stage charger (a CTEK or similar is a good example, but there are many others) and leave that hooked up to the battery all winter.

These multi stage chargers sense the battery voltage and when fully charged switch off automatically. When the battery voltage drops sufficiently (wet cell batteries slowly self discharge whether loaded or not) the charger senses it and cuts in to boost it until fully charged again.

You can do the same thing manually of course with a standard car type trickle charger, but it's a lot of effort. Once the charge current drops to less than 1 amp, disconnect the charger. Leave the battery for about a week, then boost charge again for 2-3 hours. Repeat until next summer...

Regards

Trundle

 

[Piers]

My advice would be the following.

If fully charged, leave it alone for a month. Then check the voltage (should be above 12v) and place on trickle charge for 24 hours. Repeat until you are back in service.

If you find the voltage is around 10.5 or less, you have a duff cell. Discard the battery and buy a new one. It is unnecessary to keep batteries always on trickle charge.

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
My advice would be the following.

[/ QUOTE ] I would go along with that. Weeklly charging should not be necessary, even monthly probably is more frequent than really necessary (new batteries held in stock are only recharged after 6 months I think you will find).
I would however not let the volts fall as low as 12. I recharge about every 6-8 weeks or if falls to about 12.5. That represents about 70 to 80% of fully charged. 12v would be down to about 30%.

 

[jax]

I believe it's unwise to stand a battery on a concrete floor whilst it's not in use - true or not?

 

[smeaks]

I think this is an old wives tale. The concrtete acts as huge heat sink and i believe in the bad old days that did effect batteries but with modern materials this no longer causes a problem.... however I bow to those with experience of concrete floor induced failure!

 

[paulburton44]

I have been told never to store a battery on a cold concrete floor !!!!!

 

[PeterGibbs]

There are so many folktales revolving in the ether about batteries: I was a victim of this too in days gone by. Hauling big batteries out of the boat, and back to set up in the garage with the charger plugged in...I was really taken in.

For years now I have plugged my boat into the mains - it has a multistage charger built in to the system (great investment)making sure the electrolite (no gel here please!) is good, and 5 months later, it's all systems go.

Save your efforts for other truly vulnerable parts of your lovely vessel!

PWG

 

[pvb]

Who told you that then?

[ QUOTE ]
I have been told never to store a battery on a cold concrete floor !!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]It's bo<span style="color:black">lloc</span>ks.

 

[Piers]

To be more specific than my last post, the following applies to 12v lead acid batteries.

Charge 100% = 12.7
Charge 75% = 12.4
Charge 50% = 12.2
Charge 25% = 12.0
Discharged = 11.9

Importantly, sulfation of battery plates starts when the voltage measures less than 12.4v. Sulfation hardens the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to retain charge.

 

[jimbaerselman]

if you want to know anything about batteries, go to http://www.batteryfaq.org/ , you'll find it lists all the fairy tales as well as explaining the whole story about charging/discharging/sulphation/deep cycle/cold cranking amps.

 

[leadersail]

[ QUOTE ]

. Sulfation hardens the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to retain charge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Add EDTA+ to the battery, this is a heavy metal that will clean off the sulfate during charge and will release the sulfate back into the sulfuric acid during discharge.
It continues to recycle the battery for the whole life of the battery.

Batteries will last 7-8 years instead of 2-3.
Can be added any time, brand new or one 2 years old off the battery dump !


http://www.courtiestown.co.uk/batteries/shop.htm

 

[Piers]

Really interesting

Piers

 

[essexboy]

Re: Who told you that then?

I agree, it really would be silly to store bollocks on a concrete floor
Plays havoc with your piles !

 

[Bilgediver]

Re: Who told you that then?

I agree, it really would be silly to store bollocks on a concrete floor. Plays havoc with your piles !

..................................................................................

And your bloody back /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif....A wooden bench is much better however the battery doesn t notice any difference however you might if it leaks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jimbaerselman]

I can't find any data to back up EDTA claims made by your link, though I was aware that it was used for neutralising lead poisoning effects - and as a food additive! And, by the way, the heaviest metal in it is sodium.

None of my battery information sources mention it. They all recommend high charging voltages for varying periods of time while monitoring battery temperature as a means of reducing sulphation.

I note the site you quote offers several other solutions to the sulphation problem. They provide links about sulphation, but no links that I could find proving the efficacy of the products being sold.

If EDTA works, I'm sure that someone else out there must have some tests or data to back them up. Are you aware of any?

 

[leadersail]

I first saw the product in a caravan magazine many years ago, it seamed to work.

I then saw it in PBO or MBM over ten years ago.

I used to buy it from 'pureresearch' but thier web page has vanished.

If you look at classic cars sites and classic motor bike sites it is trusted to work.

I bought a boat with batteries that were duff, no idea how old they were.
I remebered EDTA+ and bought some powder from pureresearchtheirremembered, 3 days latter my batteries were 13.5volts.

3 years latter still good and I thought time to add some more, I spoke to the owner who wouldn't sell me any more, it is a waste to put two lotsw in, your dose now 3 years old will be working he said.
Not the reply you would expect from a snake oil sales man.

I went on to tell him that I wrecked a new pair of trousers as I spilt battery acid, he said the instructions were not clear in that there was no need to remove acid unless too full, he offered to send me some free edta but made it clear not needed for a double dose that would do no harm but ready for next boat .

Why don't you choose a battery off the dump, add £3 worth of powder and then test it after a weeks charge, keep charging and discharging and it will become good as new.

I too have been surprised by the new research into edta and diet.

It will not repair buckle plates so not all batteries on the dump will renovate but I estimate 80% are fine but sulfated.

10.5 volts to 13.5 volts takes a week of trickle charge.

Capacity increase over a month or two or use charge/discharge cycles.

the term 'heavy metal' does not mean steel, it is an industrial cleaning agent that grabs particles and holds them.

There are different types of edta that all act the same way but grab different types of particles depending how they have been engineered.

 

[Malish]

I'm lazy with batteries - just leave them on the boat with a wind genny attached, switching the genny between the start and domestic once or twice over the winter. 5 years & no problems. Added a megapulse de-sulphator to the system which I attach for a while in the spring to give the plates a clean.

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
There are different types of edta

[/ QUOTE ] EDTA stands for ethylenediaminetetra-acetic acid. It is usually available as its disodium salt but it is a discrete chemical compound, there are no different types, although there are other compounds with similar properties. It forms chelates with many (heavy) metals which is the basis for its use to restore batteries as lead is one of those metals, giving EDTA solutions the property of dissolving lead sulphate. It should be remembered that lead sulphate is normally formed on both plates during discharge and is reconverted into lead dioxide (at the anode) and lead (at the cathode) and sulphuric acid during charging. One would not want EDTA to react with the lead sulphate formed during the normal operation of the battery so I can only assume that it is targeted at any lead sulphate which remains when the battery is as fully charged as it gets.

Personally I am sceptical but I have not tried it, something I guess I should have done in the days when I could have simply taken the jar of EDTA off the laboratory shelf.

It should be noted that it is not claimed to restore a battery to its original capacity, so although it may return it to a usable condition it will have a reduced capacity.

It cannot be used on sealed batteries so for those a pulsed de-sulphater is the only option. Possibly a better option for non-sealed batteries as well because you keep it when you change batteries!

 

[leadersail]

It is my understanding there are at least two different types of EDTA products.

I don't know if the EDTA+ has any relevance.

I can understand the placebo effect with herbal teas but that doesn't explain how my batteries are lasting 7/8/9 years ?

WARNING

EDTA+ affects gauges and causes them to read 13.5 volts when measuring 8 year old batteries even when being at anchor for 2 days with the colour TV on.
Also acts as a placebo on engines as they also think they are getting 13 volts too !