Windy Ghibli - sea water in bilge but no idea where it comes from - help please

[GaryAH]

Now here’s one for you. We have a Windy bought last year. Used twice, once on a trip back from Poole to Hayling and the second time we just got out of the harbour and the water pump seized. The engine is a Volvo penta D6 with a DPH drive. There was some water in the bilge and we assumed it was the water pump because there was some evidence of leaks around that area. We had a new pump fitted and no leak when ticking over on the birth then due to covid that was it for boating so we lifted the boat out for the Winter, had it serviced, winterised and also had the steering rams and hydraulic hoses replaced on the stern due to water in that system too. Boat went back in the water a couple of days ago and the steering was bled. drove the boat around to it birth, literally 150m. The following day went to take the boat out only to find sea water back in the bilge 15cm deep when it was totally dry before we motored round to our birth the day before. Dried it out again, ran the engine in neutral and no water ingress!. Left the boat 12 hours, didn’t take it out, checked again, still dry. Looked again this morning, still dry, started it up and engaged drive while on its birth and sea water came in. I’ve looked everywhere to see if I can see where the water comes in but there’s nothing obvious. search all round the back of the engine as best I could but just cannot see where the water comes in. I’ve check all the through hulls and they are all good. There was never any water in the fresh water tank because it was drained for the Winter. The engineer who replaced the rams and hoses has yet to have a look since that’s the only thing I can think of that may be the cause. It’s not rain water because there has been hardly any rain. Seems to be you get water in when you engage drive and nothing comes in when in neutral. Any ideas anyone ?

 

[simonfraser]

the stern may sit a little lower with the drive engaged ?
does that submerge the area where the ram fittings / hoses transit the tramsom ?

once you fixed the leak rinse the engine / bilge out with fresh water to reduce corrosion

 

[GaryAH]

the stern may sit a little lower with the drive engaged ?
does that submerge the area where the ram fittings / hoses transit the tramsom ?

once you fixed the leak rinse the engine / bilge out with fresh water to reduce corrosion

Thanks for your reply Simon, yes the hoses sit below the waterline where the exit the transom but I couldn’t see any leaks from the back of the engine where it meets the transom but it’s all very tight for space in that area. Do you know how the hydraulic hoses are sealed against water ingress where they pass through stern drive into the back of the engine bay.

 

[volvopaul]

Now here’s one for you. We have a Windy bought last year. Used twice, once on a trip back from Poole to Hayling and the second time we just got out of the harbour and the water pump seized. The engine is a Volvo penta D6 with a DPH drive. There was some water in the bilge and we assumed it was the water pump because there was some evidence of leaks around that area. We had a new pump fitted and no leak when ticking over on the birth then due to covid that was it for boating so we lifted the boat out for the Winter, had it serviced, winterised and also had the steering rams and hydraulic hoses replaced on the stern due to water in that system too. Boat went back in the water a couple of days ago and the steering was bled. drove the boat around to it birth, literally 150m. The following day went to take the boat out only to find sea water back in the bilge 15cm deep when it was totally dry before we motored round to our birth the day before. Dried it out again, ran the engine in neutral and no water ingress!. Left the boat 12 hours, didn’t take it out, checked again, still dry. Looked again this morning, still dry, started it up and engaged drive while on its birth and sea water came in. I’ve looked everywhere to see if I can see where the water comes in but there’s nothing obvious. search all round the back of the engine as best I could but just cannot see where the water comes in. I’ve check all the through hulls and they are all good. There was never any water in the fresh water tank because it was drained for the Winter. The engineer who replaced the rams and hoses has yet to have a look since that’s the only thing I can think of that may be the cause. It’s not rain water because there has been hardly any rain. Seems to be you get water in when you engage drive and nothing comes in when in neutral. Any ideas anyone ?

 

[volvopaul]

I’ve just done a Sealine Sc38 that took on water as soon as you put in In gear , it was the transom shield gasket failed , when yiu select reverse it created a gap between the shield and the hull , you could at the worst have a rotted transom which has allowed the shield to crush the transom allowing this .

Id be looking around the back of the engine lower part near the exhaust pipe where it bolts to the shield .

if access is good the job can be done without actually removing the engine from the boat , I carried out this task on my own for a client earlier this year .

 

[volvopaul]

Thanks for your reply Simon, yes the hoses sit below the waterline where the exit the transom but I couldn’t see any leaks from the back of the engine where it meets the transom but it’s all very tight for space in that area. Do you know how the hydraulic hoses are sealed against water ingress where they pass through stern drive into the back of the engine bay.

If they changed the steering hoses they could have removed the shuttle valve if the hoses were difficult to remove from the plate union , there is an o ring between the valve base plate and the shield .
The o ring might not be sealed correctly but you wouldn’t get water in while on the plane as this area is above sea level , you would get water in when you throttle back as water re enters that area of the boat .

 

[GaryAH]

I’ve just done a Sealine Sc38 that took on water as soon as you put in In gear , it was the transom shield gasket failed , when yiu select reverse it created a gap between the shield and the hull , you could at the worst have a rotted transom which has allowed the shield to crush the transom allowing this .

Id be looking around the back of the engine lower part near the exhaust pipe where it bolts to the shield .

if access is good the job can be done without actually removing the engine from the boat , I carried out this task on my own for a client earlier this year .

Thanks Paul that’s a good pointer to look at. I looked all around that area on both sides of the engine but nothing obvious revealed itself but more water came in after selecting reverse. I’d hope the transom itself isn’t rotted being solid grp and the boat is from 2013 so not that old. It’s all really tight for space around the back of the engine so there is a possibility the engine may have to come out.

 

[GaryAH]

If they changed the steering hoses they could have removed the shuttle valve if the hoses were difficult to remove from the plate union , there is an o ring between the valve base plate and the shield .
The o ring might not be sealed correctly but you wouldn’t get water in while on the plane as this area is above sea level , you would get water in when you throttle back as water re enters that area of the boat .

Another good suggestion Paul. I’ll get the engineer to have a look and again fits with increased water ingress in reverse gear

 

[volvopaul]

Thanks Paul that’s a good pointer to look at. I looked all around that area on both sides of the engine but nothing obvious revealed itself but more water came in after selecting reverse. I’d hope the transom itself isn’t rotted being solid grp and the boat is from 2013 so not that old. It’s all really tight for space around the back of the engine so there is a possibility the engine may have to come out.

Sounds like it’s something your engineer has done . Transom is not solid grp it’s marine ply between the grp.
If it’s a bad lay up then water soaks into the plywood especially if the ply isn’t glassed over when the shield cut out is made on build , I’ve seen it many times over the years .
Good luck , sounds like someone not covered there tracks on the recent repairs.

 

[jrudge]

the other possibility is that water is stored elsewhere and when you move forward the stern sinks slightly allowing the water to move and pool elsewhere.

The method of finding water is to dry it out and then use talcum powder. The water will leave tracks where it has come from.

Water is tricky as where is is and where it comes from often have no correlation

 

[GaryAH]

the other possibility is that water is stored elsewhere and when you move forward the stern sinks slightly allowing the water to move and pool elsewhere.

The method of finding water is to dry it out and then use talcum powder. The water will leave tracks where it has come from.

Water is tricky as where is is and where it comes from often have no correlation

Yes get your point but there‘s a couple of valves between the front of the engine bay bulkhead and the rest of the bilge going forward which is dry since the valves were shut so any water coming in has to be from the engine bay. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[GaryAH]

Sounds like it’s something your engineer has done . Transom is not solid grp it’s marine ply between the grp.
If it’s a bad lay up then water soaks into the plywood especially if the ply isn’t glassed over when the shield cut out is made on build , I’ve seen it many times over the years .
Good luck , sounds like someone not covered there tracks on the recent repairs.

Thanks Paul, I guess if it’s nothing to do with the hoses and their fitment then I guess it’s going to be expensive and more time not boating.

 

[Portofino]

Has it got underwater lights ? If so how long have they been there ?

 

[GaryAH]

Has it got underwater lights ? If so how long have they been there ?

Nope

 

[Jonmendez]

Have a very gook look at the exhaust elbow they can rust badly and leak but not at idle - at least mine did and when i removed it for a look it was a small hole underneath.

 

[dragoon]

I know you said the water tank was empty, and there hasn't been much rain, but you might want to check 100% if its actually salt water or not. It will eliminate a lot of possibilities. If I find leaks and the water is not too discouloured, i find a small taste is the easiest way.

 

[GaryAH]

Have a very gook look at the exhaust elbow they can rust badly and leak but not at idle - at least mine did and when i removed it for a look it was a small hole underneath.

Hi, thanks for the pointer. I did manage to find the leak, it’s the transom shield gasket but only one and again strangely. Engine has to come out which is not a bad thing because I can sort the rust issues from sea water ingress and replace the sump which looks quite rusty on close inspection. Expensive part from Volvo so may look into getting one made in stainless steel.

 

[GaryAH]

I know you said the water tank was empty, and there hasn't been much rain, but you might want to check 100% if its actually salt water or not. It will eliminate a lot of possibilities. If I find leaks and the water is not too discouloured, i find a small taste is the easiest way.

Definitely sea water after a taste. Turned out to be the transom shield gasket so engine out unfortunately. At least I can sort the rust issues more easily and get the engine bay spotless. The sump looks a bit rusty so will replace that while I’m at it plus all rusty nuts and bolts and any hoses that look like they need changing.

 

[[165042]]

It's no bad thing and always helps with resale.

 

[joae]

You may think twice before making the sump in stainless as you may encounter some galvanic corrosion problems. I think there are corrosion resistant steel (corten?) or just make a bit thicker (and heavier) than the original...