Wind Vanes - Do they work as well as we would like?

I have an aeries lift up because i can remove it in 5 mins for racing. However, it is heavy for my hanse 311
Because my boat is directionally very unstable the aeries cannot steer off the wind if it is not dead flat.
Upwind it is great. I never steer upwind i can set the vane & trim the sails for best performance
Downwind the boat rounds up so quick the vane cannot respond fast enough & varies by 50 degrees either way which can cause a crash gybe. I played with it for ages with lots of different vanes & found a version with epoxy grp stiffening worked best. I have tried v vanes & ones with trim tabs. I even have a vane with a pivoted parachute on the back of it
If i have plenty of sea room i get by ok but the boat accelerates too fast for the vane to keep up
If i had another i would have the monitor as it is lighter
I always ask cruisers with vanes what they think & on larger boats the owners all vote 100% for the windpilot esp germans & dutch with 40 ft plus boats
I have been playing with vanes for years on models plus my cruisers. I have also made my own
On a boat that is directionally stable i would stay with the aeries
If i hand steer i have to anticipate when going down wind but the aeries cannot
The aeries is better than the raymarine & simrad autopilots i have had in the past
 
There are essentially two (at least two) main mechanical types, as typified by the Hydrovane and by the Aries.

The Hydrovane type uses a small auxiliary rudder to steer the boat, and changes the orientation of that rudder as a function of the difference between actual direction and desired direction relative to the wind. Its rudder is hinged only in one (the vertical) axis, just as the ship's own one. The boat's main rudder plays no part in the course correction and is locked in position.

The Aries type does no steering at all in the gear itself. Instead it changes the orientation of its little rudder as a function of the difference between actual direction and desired direction relative to the wind, but the key point is that the rudder is not attached to the transom but is attached to a beam which is free to swing about a fore-and-aft axis. Hence a small change in direction of the Aries rudder pushes the beam sideways with a force caused by the boat's forward motion through the water. The sideways movement of that beam acts on the boat's own rudder, via string and pulleys, to effect a course correction.

The reason for the above waffle is to explain that the Aries type has gain from the boat's forward motion whereas the Hydrovane has not. This difference affects how one is best to use them, but despite the lower gain and thus power of the Hydrovane undoubtedly it works. To get the best out of it one needs to:

(a) set up the boat for as little (weather) helm as possible, usually by slackening sheets much more than one would have done if steering by hand, and then
(b) offset the residual weather helm by locking the wheel (or tiller).

I have a Hydrovane on my current boat, and have used it on other boats as well, and have used an Aries. The Aries is actually better in my opinion, but very much more complicated to use and can't be used as a steering rudder. The Hydrovane works best on a boat which doesn't change weather helm much when the angle of heel changes, and so less well on modern boats with a broad stern.

A side benefit of the disadvantage of the Hydrovane's limited power is that it does teach one quite a lot about the boat and trimming sails for neutral helm: I suspect many or most experienced Hyrovane owners could cope if their main rudder fell off!
 
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I have an Aries wind vane. The Monitor is identical in angles, gear ratios and geometry, it is a direct copy of the Aries but in Stainless Steel.

The Achilles heel of the Aries, is the mix of metals. Aluminium frame, bronze cogs, stainless steel running tubes all secured with stainless steel grub screws. The nylon bushings are simple bearings but are a disaster because aluminium crystals build up between the frame and the nylon forcing them tighter and ever tighter on the stainless pivots causing them to get very stiff and eventually seize up.

At the advice of the late Nick Franklin (designer and builder) I used a large sledge hammer to dismantle the seized pivots and remove the nylon bushings. I replaced with reamed out bushings for a very loose fit. In the exact words of Nick Franklin, a loose rattily fit is actually better than a snug fit.

A loose fit is essential to ensure the Aries works easily in light downwind situations.

An easy test is to manually swing the arm to one side with the paddle raised. Then let go, it should swing like a pendulum at least three time before setting vertically. I reckon that most Aries will only swing down to vertical with no overshoot.
 
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BurnitBlue said:
I have an Aries wind vane. The Monitor is identical in angles, gear ratios and geometry, it is a direct copy of the Aries but in Stainless Steel.

The Achilles heel of the Aries, is the mix of metals. Aluminium frame, bronze cogs, stainless steel running tubes all secured with stainless steel grub screws.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons I finally went for a Monitor instead of the Aries was that should the wind vane get damaged it's far easier to find someone who can weld stainless than it is to find someone who could repair an aliminium frame.
 
When we bought our current boat, it came with an Aries lift up model. It had spent almost all it's life in a garage rather than on the back of the boat and was, as a result, in almost as new condition. We thought long and hard about keeping it but weren't too happy with the control lines routed across the aft deck and onto the wheel. After debate, the Aries was sold (to go on a Rival 32) and we installed a Hydrovane (which we had purchased second hand for our previous boat but not got around to installing). Hydrovane is a neater installation and seems to do exactly what it says on the tin. Would the Aries have been better? Don't know, but the Hydrovane certainly works.
 
I've been shipmates with 3 different gears on 4 boats.

The Albin Ballad and later my Contessa 33 (not 32!) had the same Monitor unit fitted. Once set up and tuned it worked remarkably well. With the Ballad, whilst sailing double handed, we missed winning a RORC race, our class and overall by 40 seconds. The Monitor steered, and we trimmed the kite like demons.

The unit was then fitted to the Contessa for more double handed racing and a two year Atlantic Circuit, on which it never missed a beat.

I've sailed a season on a S&S Swan 40, which had a Pacific Plus. Reasonable gear, but poor in light conditions; it needs 4 kts of boat speed and 10kts of wind to perform. The basic construction using bushes rather than bearings doesn't help. It acquired the nickname, The Sulky Hun.

My current boat, a long fin and skeg 37' came fitted with a Hydrovane. After 20,000 miles my views are: The basic problem is that getting the wind alone to turn an auxiliary rudder means it isn't very powerful. It's especially poor in a quartering sea, as the rudder doesn't have the strength to keep her running straight. Forget setting a spinnaker.

The Mickey Mouse way the rudder is attached means manoeuvring in a tight marina is fraught as it can't be lifted out of the water, unlike a pendulum servo gear.

Also, the people who sell it aren't very nice to deal with. I had extensive correspondence with them about the Hydrovane's poor performance. They recommended that a new larger rudder and a suitably strengthened shaft was the answer. Many photographs and accurate measurements were taken.

When the new parts arrived, it was obvious that they were never going to fit. When I queried this, they said "Oh you must have the 1.25" shaft, it won't fit." Also, the new rudder was badly warped.

At first they refused to take the stuff back, "you ordered it, we supplied" they said. They changed their tune when I pointed it out it was their boss that specified the alterations in the first place. Nevertheless, they refused to refund my not inconsiderable shipping costs to and from Florida.

All in all, if I wasn't selling my boat, I'd remove the Hydrovane and flog it to some unsuspecting mug and fit a Monitor.

Don't forget another alternative is to have a complete spare below decks pilot. Probably for less cost than a vane gear.

Sorry for waffling on.
 
My only experience is two seasons with a Sea Feather vane fitted to my Contessa 26. It has steered less than 1000 miles but works on all points of sail, but least well downwind in little wind, when it gets confused and eventually loses control.

I like the idea mentioned of making a bigger vane for these conditions. I was wondering if just fitting a bigger streamer would work?
 
zikzik said:
My only experience is two seasons with a Sea Feather vane fitted to my Contessa 26. It has steered less than 1000 miles but works on all points of sail, but least well downwind in little wind, when it gets confused and eventually loses control.

I like the idea mentioned of making a bigger vane for these conditions. I was wondering if just fitting a bigger streamer would work?
Click to expand...

Monitor supplies a very light polycarbonate large vane for light airs.In those conditions it helps to keep in the upright position with a bit of lightly tensioned thin shockord.
 
>A side benefit of the disadvantage of the Hydrovane's limited power is that it does teach one quite a lot about the boat and trimming sails for neutral helm: I suspect many or most experienced Hyrovane owners could cope if their main rudder fell off!

This is true. I had to help two boats with Hydrovanes who couldn't get it to steer straight, in both cases I had to show them how to balance their boat, 40 feet and 32 feet. On one reaching passage of 290 NMs I decided to lock the rudder and Hydrovane and balance the boat it sailed fine with no adjustments needed.
 
I have done over 10,000 miles with my Hydrovane

most of it down wind, never had a problem
( well... none that comes to mind )

or it could be my good old 36ft westerly is a well balanced boat :)

I do sometimes use my main rudder ever so slightly locked off to trim
the boat depending on wind direction and force

My only niggle is access to remove the rudder easily
I did come across someone who had fabricated
a s/s hinge arrangement on the rudder so that it could
be swung out of the water

I would think any windvane system used when flying a spinnaker
is pushing the boat a bit, ( see what i did their )

I think the Hydrovane is a great bit off kit
wouldnot leave home without it
 
We've used the Navik to helm our Vega under spinnaker, was better than me because it has a longer concentration span!
 
I'm surprised by one or two negatives re the HVane. Mine was a first class bit of kit, and the service was superb.
No pilot is perfect, though.

I ilke that fact that you can flip up the paddle on the Monitor when in marinas - makes driving much easier.
But I like the fact that once the Hydrovane is set up your main steering does not move. Over several thousand miles this saves considerable wear and tear.
If someone could marry the two thrn they'd have cracked it.
I suspect that those who have problems haven't got their boats balanced, as someone described above.
 
BurnitBlue said:
A loose fit is essential to ensure the Aries works easily in light downwind situations.
Click to expand...

I struggled a bit with my Aries (old, bought with yacht) until I realised this. However, it mustn't just be a loose fit, there must be absolutely the minimum of play in all joints. It took a fair bit of initial maintenance work to achieve this, renewing all the bearings, drilling out most of the old grub screws and other connectors, and replacing them with bolts. Thereafter it did need regular oiling and bolts adjusting.

Once this was done my Aries performed faultlessly, getting better as the wind got stronger. It would handle the boat reliably downwind in a F8 when I couldn't manage it myself without soon making a mistake. I estimate it steered 60,000 miles for me, before the boat was sold.
 
I fitted a Hydrovane to my last boat, a First 38. It was by far the best thing I have ever bought for a boat. It steered brilliantly and if it didn't hold course it was because the boat wasn't happy. Some reefing/ trimming was all that was required to resume steady sailing.
if I go back to doing lots of sailing I will be fitting another one to the boat. ( along with a Dickinson or Reflex heater...)
 
We used a Monitor for our circumnavigation. Once we learned to use it well, having the boat well balanced, it was invaluable. It even steered the spinnaker in light to moderate wind (beyond which we would not be using the kite anyway).

Casual observation suggested that it and the Hydrovane were the most popular brands amongst the long distance sailing community, which is the best recommendation.
 
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Would not sail without our Monitor, 40 foot med displacement cutter. It is simple to use, adaptable to wind strength( two different vanes), simple to maintain and repair.
Only had one problem at sea when the sacrificial tube snapped in very severe knockdown. We carry a spare and had replaced it within the hour....
Can be difficult to set when sailing directly downwind but it's not impossible.
We are quite happy to leave the Monitor helming in very heavy weather whilst we can grab some rest below.....
 
Absolutely. Have used 2 both on long keeled boats. A 31 and a 40. The first one is of Norwegian origin and so rare and not worth talking about accept to say it was more sensitive than the aries no 5 i had. The rare one was to a tiller and the Aries was to a wheel which means that wind vanes work better on tillers. The Aries was more rugged and worked very well. You needed a water speed of 2.5 knots and 7 knots of wind. That was my experience. I have misgiving about the hydrovane as you would have to be far better balanced for the small rudder to work. I note that hydrovane increased the size of rudder at one stage sort of supporting my suspicions. I have never used a hydrovane so am a backseat knobbler on that.(I like the lack of lines to the cockpit though) I would have an Aries no 5 no problem again. Going to windward was fantastic. (For the vane, not for me.)
 
Have you used a servo pendulum type to compare...? I have always been tempted by the hydro but have a few misgivings.
 
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